To keep unvaccinated step children away from my newborn?

[sydneycat]

Its a bit of a long one but here goes.

I am a step mother to two boys 4 and 6. The 6 year old has autism which my partner attributes to jabs he recieved at 6 months. As a medical professional I know there is no substance to that at all but my partner won't be swayed.
I love both boys very much and am very happy to be a part of their lives. However I am very concerned as both boys are constantly sick with colds and various bugs. We also live in a area with a low vaccination rate. My baby is due to be born in winter and there have been worsening outbreaks of whooping cough.
I am concerned about them spending time with the baby before it has its shots as the baby will have no protection against whooping cough which is highly dangerous and often fatal to very young babies.
My partner is extremely anti vaccine given his eldests autism. I love him and we are extremely happy but I am not happy about putting my baby at this much risk, what is the best way to broach this?

But saintly, I looked and looked, my eldest is on the spectrum so it was a huge decision for me for e younger ones. My neighbours grown up DD is in a residentisl home and they think it is vsccine related.

so it made me search and search but I never found any decent research which is why I ask. Not to be difficult.

Disco - then you must have come across the idea (not controversial) that autism is not one thing. It is many different conditions. So there is no 'autism is caused by.... '

If you have a family history of autism and broader autism phenotype in your family tree then it may be that anything immune or vaccination or mitochondrial related is completely irrelevant to your family.

If however you have a child who became ill & lost speech sounds (&never regained them) following a common everyday viral infection & a family history of different immune disorders & autoimmune conditions with absolutely no autism or broader autism phenotype in the large extended family then you may want to read up on the immune related research. And talk to the people carrying it out ( they'll always tell you more of you speak to them directly).

Is there a klaxon that goes off when there's a vaccination thread? The same few names always pop up and repeat themselves and repeat themselves. They're not prepared to shift their opinion (which is fair enough) but I do wonder why they bother.

maybe because it is so fucking important so ignoring the ignorant shitty comments is not an option?

maybe people take offence at being called fucking stupid because of a medically-backed decision they have taken?

if it is so tedious to read, you could always not bother.

I always think that too but I am not sure we are talking about the same people.

I am always going to notice a vaccination thread because it totally altered every single day of my life rather than just being a passing Bunfight on the net?

pagwatch, you are always so reasonable.

one day I might manage it too

Gah, not at all NewBlue. But thank you for thinking that

I absoloutely understand why people 'on the outside' of this don't accept it. I don't really mind. If it wasn't my life I would probably be sceptical. I wish people could just remember this is about our children though and try not to be offensive.

yeah, I can see how it can be inconceivable.

it was for me too - that's how I ended up here!

but i do lose patience when people are so close minded.

Where's the op?

I rather suspect that once the OP realised that she had managed to open the "Vacc V Non Vacc" can of worms at the same time as "Step Parent With Opinion" can of worms and threw in "PFB in Second Family" can of worms, she legged it! Who can blame her?!

Yer I thought as much, either that or a basic algorithm ??

Well lets hope before she bogged off she learned a little about how pertussis spreads & why it is circulating worldwide at the moment.

I wasn't saying that the people who post regularly are wrong or that it doesn't matter, simply wondering why people bother when others aren't going to change their mind? I wasn't slating the names/people I recognise, purely pondering over why they continue when some people are so ignorant that they will never open their minds to see the other side. If that makes more sense?

And I do find it tedious because people don't ever seem to shift on their opinions or admit they are wrong. Perhaps it's because I sit somewhere in the middle and I have learned a lot from the regular posters on this topic but those who start threads (and a select few) are generally not willing to be shifted.

I post when I see a thread because I think it is important to have my views represented.

The OP (and others ) may or may not change their view, or even listen.

But there may be other posters and lurkers who do. You said yourself you have learned a lot from reading similar threads.

This is my reality, and it will be for the rest of my life. I will not have it dismissed or swept under the carpet because it is uncomfortable for some to contemplate.

Sorry New but that's not fair. I don't think it's too uncomfortable, nor am I denying you the opportunity. I was commenting in exasperation because historically, these threads follow the same line and unless people are prepared to shift, people just bitch, fight and offend people like you who do have a genuine reason to care.

My original comment came out badly. I am not attacking people for posting on these threads. I am just exasperated at some of the insane comments from people with zero medical (or other) knowledge. I genuinely didn't mean to imply that the topic is not important and appreciate that it has an important place in people's lives. So, I apologise if it came across that way. I do care about these debates but the way they go on this forum is just that it ends up mud slinging and people's children may be insulted and that's just nasty.

for all!

'I wasn't saying that the people who post regularly are wrong or that it doesn't matter, simply wondering why people bother when others aren't going to change their mind?'

Lots of people read these discussions, some lurkers. People who don't vaccinate are repeatedly painted in an ignorant way which should always be challenged. There are a few issues that I have changed my mind about through reading balanced discussions on MN.

candy - it's a question I ask myself frequently Although if I don't have the energy I do just ignore threads.

But then people PM me and they've read what I've written and ask for further reading or whatever and some of the things written are so absolutely wrong it's worth pointing that out. Someone might read it.

This thread is a good example really - even though all the official literature and the big public health bods are actually saying, in public, openly that there is a problem with waning immunity fuelling cyclical outbreaks of pertussis and that adults and teens often have whooping cough without realising it (so spread it) there's still this idea that it's disease ridden unvaccinated children who are behind the outbreaks.

Hopefully the OP now has a better understanding of the risks for her newborn (and whooping cough is a vile disease in young babies - I was very concerned when unvaccinated 8 week old ds2 was exposed). And can take additional steps to avoid coughing adults while putting the risk from well unvaccinated children (or child, the eldest must have had vaccinations surely?) into perspective

It is necessary to keep posting because people do learn and change and realise that all is not black and white.

I came on mn about nine years ago and once contributed to a vaccination thread (yes, they have been ongoing for that long) that people who didn’t vaccinate were selfish and that the UK should be like Australia where vaccination is compulsory before starting school...

I was severely rounded on by Dinosaur who told me in no uncertain terms that it was all very well to have that opinion but for people whose children have regressed following vaccination it’s just not that simple.

And as time went on I read more on mn, and i got to know jimjams (personally) and pagwatch etc from the boards and realised that it’s very easy to sit on the outside and say “well they say that at the time autism is most likely to present is about the same time as babies have their mmr so of course you can see why parents mistakenly believe it was the mmr but actually there’s no way it could be.” But it’s a nice easy get-out. Blame the parents for being misled rather than admit that for some people there is a very real risk to vaccination, in the same way there is a very real risk from certain diseases.

What the “pro” vaccination posters seem to lose sight of is the fact that those who choose not to vaccinate generally aren’t actually anti vaccination at all, and most do actually believe in vaccinations but recognise that for some children vaccination is not a possibility. I’ve never seen someone who didn’t vaccinate advise someone else not to, but I’ve seen plenty who do vaccinate call those that don’t selfish...

The op’s dp already has autism in his family. His child regressed following a vaccination, no it wasn’t mmr, but there has been controversy about other vaccinations in the past, e.g. thermerisol (sp?) in the baby jabs, which I don’t know enough about to comment, but if this child had a compromised immune system then this father may be right in that his dc was vaccine damaged (and vaccine damage does exist, there is a fund to compensate for it), and as such may not wish to take the chance with any other children. And who could blame him really.

And this isn’t someone who has just blindly decided not to vaccinate, this is someone with experience.

And quite apart from anything, there is the sheer ignorance surrounding this. Unvaccinated children don’t actually have the diseases they haven’t been vaccinated against y’know, they just haven’t been vaccinated, you know, just like all babies haven’t been vaccinated. Perhaps we should keep all babies apart for the first two years of life until they have all been vaccinated lest one of them catches a disease from another...

If my ex suddenly stopped contact on the basis his dp had had a baby and she didn’t want my child near it for fear of catching something I would be seriously reviewing his contact in the best interests of my child.

candy thank you for your further posts. And I need to apologise for my post last night - i was ina lot of pain, and quite irritable, and it just all boiled over a bit.

I have to disagree with you, though. I do think that a lot of the hardline 'just vaccinate, ffs. it's that simple' posters find it uncomfortable to read stories like mine, and pagwatch's, and saintly's. not because of embarrassment at our lives, but because our lives prove that the situation is not as black and white as thye like to make out.

as seen on this thread, lottie asked a valid question, yet has not received an answer. because the onlyanswer there is to give does not fit with the line that the majority of pro-vaccination posters like to take.

and when I (and saintly) mentioned that actually we had had medical agreement for what had happened to our (and other) children, we were immediately told that we had misheard, or only heard what we wanted ot hear. again, it is just too uncomfortable for some posters (I did say some, and didn't mean you) to admit that actual, real, properly qualified people put vaccines and damage and autism in the same sentence. it rocks their world.

I understand that. it rocked mine.

Is there room in the world for people who think that vaccine damage can happen but that it is still unreasonable to not vaccinate your kids unless you suspect they are particularly susceptible to potential vaccine damage?

I got my DD done in full knowledge that I was taking a risk....and that not doing it was also taking a risk.

Regarding the MMR autism trigger thing.

It seems logical to me that if the diseases cause symptoms which themselves can trigger autism, then the vaccines which trigger the same symptoms as the disease in a tiny fraction of the population can also trigger autism. That is a big IF though, as there isn't much evidence that say measles or any other infection can trigger autism.

If they can though, you are still at on average at greater risk from the disease than the vaccine but if you know you are not average then it is still possible to be safer not to vaccinate.

I think vaccination is a Good Thing. My 2 were both vaccinated (back in the late 90s/early 00s). Did I worry like mad? yes of course I did, and for those who took the decision to vaccinate and THEN found their children damaged... I have nothing but the deepest sympathy, and admiration for coping and raising the issue.

It feels to me as if some of us 'get away with it', while others do not - and no one really knows who the ones who dont get away it are going to be.

Agreed, boschy.