To keep unvaccinated step children away from my newborn?

[sydneycat]

Its a bit of a long one but here goes.

I am a step mother to two boys 4 and 6. The 6 year old has autism which my partner attributes to jabs he recieved at 6 months. As a medical professional I know there is no substance to that at all but my partner won't be swayed.
I love both boys very much and am very happy to be a part of their lives. However I am very concerned as both boys are constantly sick with colds and various bugs. We also live in a area with a low vaccination rate. My baby is due to be born in winter and there have been worsening outbreaks of whooping cough.
I am concerned about them spending time with the baby before it has its shots as the baby will have no protection against whooping cough which is highly dangerous and often fatal to very young babies.
My partner is extremely anti vaccine given his eldests autism. I love him and we are extremely happy but I am not happy about putting my baby at this much risk, what is the best way to broach this?

Surely the elder child at least has been vaccinated (maybe not MMR but had the DTaP), if your partner attributes his autism to vaccinations?

TBH so far as whooping cough goes your baby can easily pick it up from anyone. I caught whooping cough towards the end of pregnancy (I'd been vaccinated as a child, but this was when they didn't offer pregnant women a booster shot) just from normal being out and about and passed it on to newborn DS (and on the subject of "it freaks me out that they go untreated for so long with severe coughs", have you any idea how many visits I made to GP and HV concerned about DS's cough before anyone would take me seriously? If the chest is clear GPs don't tend to do anything about a cough). If it's whooping cough you're concerned about then it only makes sense to keep your baby away from his/her siblings if you also plan to keep him/her away from any adults who can't produce an immunisation certificate dated within the last two years.

I don't really see the relevance of the "both boys are constantly sick with colds and various bugs" this is nothing to do with their immunisation status, surely? Nor is it at all unusual at their ages. If they were your own bio children they'd be just as likely to be "constantly sick with colds and various bugs" would you be keeping them away from their sibling then? If your concern is that they "seem to pick up everything going" and therefore they will inevitably get whooping cough, then wouldn't they have caught it last year or the year before? The safest people to have around an unimmunised baby are people who've recently had wild whooping cough themselves, because they aren't going to be catching it again to pass on.

Assuming you are having the third trimester whooping cough vaccination yourself, that will give your baby a fair bit of immunity -- protecting newborn babies from catching whooping cough before they have their own vaccinations is the entire point of spending money rolling out that programme, after all.

I think death rate in babies from wc is around 1 in 500, MissPlumBroughtALadder (I looked it up when newborn DS had it).

This thread is like mumsnet bingo anti vaccination/pro vac, step children.
I await the next dripfeed op.

To those who say 'you should have thought of this before having children' - how is that meant to be helpful? What do you suggest - she invents a time machine?

OP - I would have the whooping cough vaccine while pregnant and breastfeed - both will help your baby's immunity.

How does your partner feel about your baby being vaccinated?

Baby will have a certain amount of immunity from your immunity, for the first 6 months baby will be 'using' your antibodies. If you get vcciated baby will be covered

*vaccinated-stupid phone
Also to add that vaccines only protect against certain strains, you can still get whooping cough for example as there is more than one bacteria which causes it.

Prof Adam Finn, from University of Bristol, said: "The current vaccination programme has reduced whooping cough in children, but also pushed it back into older age groups

Immunity due to vaccine does not last as long as immunity due to infection so as the number of people who have had whooping cough in the past falls, population immunity falls and rates go up

This is happening everywhere, not just in the UK (That was from the BBC website - but if you look though for example the JCVI minutes you will find the same sort of opinion)

If you are particularly worried about whooping cough you need to avoid adults with long lasting coughs as well. Whooping cough is much harder to spot in adults because they rarely whoop. They also found that for whooping cough coccooning (ie vaccinating other family members) a child doesn't work - that's why they introduced the pregnancy shot programme - which does appear to have led to a drop in whooping cough figures.

Agree with woo woo owl. And do be careful to get you facts correct if you want to make a point. If for example you started complaining to me about my unvaccinated children wrt whooping cough I would think you were a bit bonkers because a lot of whooping cough transmission is taking place from vaccinated teens/adults anyway. And one of the unvaccinated children has had whooping cough so is probably a safer bet for still being immune than his older vaccinated brother or any of the teenagers sat on the bus. And I never expose newborns to any sort of cough/mild illness anyway (so am again probably a safer bet than people who take their ill kids out everywhere).

FWIW ds2 was exposed to whooping cough for a whole day when he was 8 weeks old- in the same small indoor room. Found out a day later it was whooping cough. It was worrying but he didn't catch it so I presume he had immunity from me.

I agree with what most other people are saying. If you're worried about W/C then have the vaccine yourself so that some of your immunity can be passed on. As saintly said, you can catch WC just as easily from older children and adults who are no longer immune. Some studies are showing that the WC vaccine starts to wane after as little as 12 months. WC is most risky for newborns which is why they've started vaccinating women in pregnancy. I'm also not sure what the children catching colds etc has to do with this. There aren't any vaccines against colds. Most children their age are catching lots of different bugs - school has a lot to do with it!

And if you do want to read up on autism and the immune system then this is a light place to start it's too vague to be any practical use but covers a lot of the hot topics & gives you enough names to google to start finding out about the current research.

jimjams -- you don't just need to avoid adults with long lasting coughs, because once they've had the cough for three weeks they'll no longer be infectious. You need to avoid all adults who have a bit of a sniffle, or are feeling a bit peaky but can't put their finger on why, because that's how wc presents for the first week or so when you're merrily puffing out germs over everyone you encounter.

Thanks for all the answers!
This was a surprise baby so we didn't really discuss too much before. The boys stay with us 2-3 nights a week so I have them for a fair amount of time.

Just reread and noticed that the OP has said she is a medical professional so surely she already knows about vaccinating during pregnancy and waning immunity in older children/adults. Still not sure why she thinks the colds and multiple bugs have anything to do with being unvaccinated though

Yes that's true an adventure. And I said older teens but they'll have had the wP so might be a safe bet than the 10 year olds who had the aP.

Incidentally I was worried when ds2 was exposed because I'd never had whooping cough (had the jab) & the reports at the time seemed to suggest that limited w/c immunity was passed via the placenta. However, the mother of the twins who had exposed ds2 had also exposed me when I was 8. I was in quarantine due to measles and she was in quarantine due to whooping cough so we played together :1970's: I did briefly wonder whether her topping up my vaccine immune by whooping all over me in 1979 ended up preventing ds2 getting it at 8 weeks?! Maybe I returned the favour by topping up her measles immunity

So what would you do considering the children currently stay with you for 2-3 nights a week? You can't just stop the children being allowed to stay with their own Dad, punishing them for the decisions that you, your partner and their mother made is clearly not an option.

Look into getting yourself vaccinated and breastfeed.

In short YABU if only because keeping them away for 8 weeks when they spend 2/3 nights a week in your home will be impossible. Also, even if you could quarantine them, or you and the baby, your DP will be spending time with you all so could spread bugs.

And you need to thrash out the immunisation issue with your DP now. We have issues with jabs because of bad reactions so we had to be selective about which jabs they had and when.

OP. are you going to be vaccinated?

YANBU. You are being a responsible parent and I'd do exactly the same as you. I hope you don't get flamed here though as it appears a step mothers place is always in the wrong on Mumsnet.

Laurel1979 - if the children spend 2/3 nights a week with the OP you are suggesting she bans them from what is, in effect, their home.

Do you think that's a good plan?

And unless every single visitor comes with their full medical history the baby will be exposed to all sorts, as are all babies with older siblings. My new DGC has already had a cold because of this.

There are risks in life and personally I think it is a greater risk that you will damage family relationships if you try to keep your DSS's away from your newborn than that he/she will come to any physical harm (including whooping cough) from being in contact with them. You can of course reconsider the risks if either child shows any sign of illness - I think that would be more reasonable and easier for the boys to understand.
ie. You could say that little babies can catch colds easily (though actually I think often have some protection from Mum) so not to hold the baby if they're not well.
I think going further than that could cause problems in various family relationships.
I'd try to think of the boys as my children too, and be generous and inclusive towards them
Good luck - is baby here yet?

Sorry to derail, OP, but what is a "surprise baby"?

Tbh I woud be having this conversation with my DH rather than on the Internet.

You are a medical professional (whatever that means) so you knw what the issues are. You say you love your partner so you understand and sympathise with the grief and upset he experienced when his child developed autism and you presumeably want to avoid trampling on that.

So the answer must be a compromise worked out between people who love each other and love their children.

There is no right answer which will make both of you happy. So you talk and respect each other and agree. And if you can't do that then you have no business being together.

what is a "surprise baby"?

An unplanned pregnancy I imagine.

Your newborn will be exposed to all kinds of things, I would try and not over think it or it will drive you mad. Are you going to have the whopping cough jab? That will provide your baby with some protection. But what does your dh think about you getting it done? What are you going to do about the babies jabs? You know he has as much rights as you over if baby should have them or not. I really think you birth need to sit down and talk, before baby arrives.

I hope you don't get flamed here though as it appears a step mothers place is always in the wrong on Mumsnet.

No it isnt! However, a step parent who wants to put their biological child/ren above their step children will always get a flaming and there have been a few threads lately where that has been the case. If you dont want to deal with step family issues then dont have a relationship with a man who already has children. What angers people is the way that some step parents have a hierarchy in the family where their biological child is expected to come first in everyones priority list and their step children a poor second.

The OP is in danger of doing that, and she is being advised that she could cause irreparable damage to her family if she continues with that view.