To think pregnant women shouldn't assume they have ultimate priority over seats on trains?

[sontaranstrax]

I was on a very crowded train long distance to meet DP at his parents' for the weekend this evening, all seats taken, standing room packed. About ten minutes in I was struggling to stand and managed to get one of the priority seats as someone was leaving the train. A few minutes later I was told by a heavily pregnant woman that she needed my seat as she needed to sit down, so I explained that I also needed to sit down for medical reasons and she would have to ask someone else. She proceeded to launch into an attack about how I looked perfectly healthy and she was in her third trimester and who did I think I was to deny her a seat when she needed one. Another pregnant woman in one of the other priority seats then piped up and both had a go at me, asking who I thought I was to not give up my seat and shouting abuse at me across the train, at which point everyone else in the carriage was giving me dirty looks (although not offering to give up their own seats) so I felt I didn't have much of a choice. I couldn't stand so ended up sitting on the floor leaning against the wall for the rest of the journey. AIBU to think pregnant women aren't the only people who need a seat on trains and have no right to turf someone else in need out of theirs?

Maybe next time book a seat or get to the station early to be first on? I say this as someone who has chronic hip pain so I've got used to having to be prepared, unfortunately if your not limping about with a stick people assume you must be ok.

I thought of this thread yesterday, been reading with interest, and I was on a crowded tram after a long meeting which I couldn't miss, on antibiotics for a horrid kidney infection, plus I have very low blood sugar issues which makes me light headed randomly and pass out if it gets bad. Anyway I was in massive pain because I needed a wee, as you constantly do with uti and the like, my back was killing due to kidney pain, v lightheaded feeling washing over me, I sat down and closed my eyes and put headphones in hoping not to vomit or something, at the next stop a man and woman aged around 65, walking shoes, backpacks etc got on, I thought for a split second to get up but then I thought 'i just can't' to be honest I did 'judge' them in a way, as they could have had disability or illness but as they had their walking gear and tourist type stuff with them I assumed they were sound. They then stared at me, obviously talking about me, so I muted iPod and they were saying 'bloody rude' etc. I mean where's the line where someone is or isn't elderly, how did they know I was in pain? I could have offered my seat then thrown up on the floor, would they have preferred that? Luckily they got off next stop, but I was thrown by it, i felt bad, but then again, they didn't ask me to move, or any of the middle aged business men on their smartphones making 'important calls' that could have moved, either.

People do unfortunately become very self entitled. Do the trains have cameras on them these days/ if they do, I'd have reported these women for being so bloody abusive.

Everything Miaow just said!

Sontaran - yanbu, and I hope you can take some comfort from the sane posters on this thread who think that anyone with a problem that makes standing difficult should be given equal courtesy.

Iola - read the thread - OP has explained that she couldn't book in advance because it was a trip to visit a relative who'd just been taken sick.

YANBU. They were just a pair of rude self entitled ignoramuses (ignorami????)
In fairness, I don't think most pregnant women think they should have priority for seats, in the same way that most parents don't think they should have special parking spaces by the door of the supermarket, or are entitled to take Christmas off work ahead of other colleagues.
But unfortunately the small minority of self centred, living in a bubble, ones leave a very strong and not very nice impression.

Gingee - No, you shouldn't feel bad. If you had been asked to move, you could have explained (very briefly) that you were unwell. It's bloody rude to bitch about someone not moving. Particularly if you outwardly appear fit and healthy (I understand that some disabilities are hidden, but I think if that is the case I think you probably have to accept that you have to ask to get the priority treatment. Otherwise everyone would only sit in their seat for one stop, until the next set of people got on and we all jumped up in case...) It's typical British passive aggression not to ask, just grumble loudly.

You almost certainly had more need of a seat as them based on the limited information you had. And I'm sure that there were people in the carriage who needed it less than any of you. I don't think a 65 year old in walking gear is particularly, on the face of it, desperately in need of a sit down. It's not like I was there leading on my 95 year old deaf and blind grandma.

FWIW, when I have been heavily pregnant or poorly, or standing and seen someone clearly in need of a seat board the train or bus, I have never judged an individual for not getting up. You don't know how much they need the seat. I do, however, reserve some scorn for a whole carriage of people who instantly become very engrossed in their paper.

I hope you feel better soon.

So many posts on this thread sound bitter and aggressive.

Why?

Sonta, of course you should not have given up your seat if you were feeling ill or in pain. It's a shame that you felt pressured to do so and that the pregnant ladies (or any of the other passengers) on the train didn't listen to you or support you.

However, I have lived in London half my life and use public transport daily and I have never witnessed such a situation, so in my humble experience most pregnant women don't go around demanding seats from other vulnerable people on public transport.

Why then do some posters on this thread call pregnant women "entitled bitches", "poor baby with such a mother" etc? I am not naive but I really don't understand this and find it worrying how on a forum for parents there seems to be such hatred directed at expecting mums.

Being pregnant is not an illness in itself of course but many many expecting women experience varying degrees of feeling sickness, pain discomfort or have high risk pregnancies etc. Why should they not get treated courteously and with a bit of extra consideration?

Genuine surprise at some of the reactions on this thread.

Surely there were others on the train who could have stood up? This situation seems a bit ridiculous, as surely it was possible for you and this woman to both have a seat. You must both have needed it more than many of the people on the train.

Either someone should have offered (surely the reasonable solution) or either you or the woman should have asked if someone else could give up their seat.

Pregnant woman don't have priority over everyone - the elderly for instance probably need a seat more. But it's very unlikely that there was no one sitting down in the carriage who could have given her the seat.

Of course they shouldn't have abused you though.

I am pregnant at the mo and do usually ask a specific person. I try to pick someone who looks able bodied to ask. However, if they said they had a medical condition I would ask someone else, or call out to the whole carriage.

Really though there is much more of a problem with able bodied commuters being inconsiderate to heavily pregnant women than the pregnant women abusing people or being "entitled".

Mim78 I used to do a daily commute for four years on the Train. There are a lot of able bodied people who choose to sit where they like and ignore the fact when someone less able gets on. Surely there must have been more than one priority seat in the carriage? I think the reason a few posters called them entitled was after the OP had explained she had a medical reason she was still given a mouthful of abuse by them as they obviously saw it as their 'right'. Which it is. In a way. It just isn't any more of a right than someone disabled/recovering from major surgery IMO.

Yes, I would say lack of consideration to anyone who needs a seat is more common than pregnant women abusing those in the carriage. But those women were entitled and bloody rude.

pregnancy is not an illness. And if someone says "no," and explains they have a medical condition that should be the end of it.

However I have an experience from the other side of the coin... I got on a bus recently and a woman asked if I would like a seat (I am VI which shouldn't in itself mean I can't sit down but people do offer). I explained that I was only going a few stops so thanked her and said that it wasn't necessary. She insisted "no no, my husband will give up his seat, give up your seat for the lady George." whereupon George slowly moved from his seat, and at the point he moved past me I realised that he had a walking stick. I was mortified!

Careful wannaBe someone will soon come along and tell you that pg can be an illness in some ways, i.e complications. Which no one actually contradicted, they just said pg doesn't give you a free pass to be verbally abusive.

I stood on a train when I was seven months pregnant, so I had a disability and a pregnancy and still I couldn't play the entitled card.

Misspixie, nobody's personal circumstances, regardless of how difficult they may be give a free pass to be rude or abusive to others imo. I thought that was called common courtesy.

However, I have personally never encountered any overly 'entitled' or verbally abusive pregnant women during my 20 odd years of using trains and buses in London so it's not a trend or anything.

What is a trend though is that lots of people old, young, male, female or whatever are increasingly self-centred and would not dream of offering their seat to someone who may need it more. As seen in OP's experience.

When I was growing up all children automatically stood up and offered their seat to an older person. Nowadays, it never even occurs to them. You also see them and their bad example parents occupying a whole group of seats while elderly people stand. That always drives me mad.

When I was growing up we were made to stand by the bus conductor or the train guard. I would like to think we would have done it of our own accord, I wonder though...

People also lie to get what they want. eg "Oh you want this seat, well i'm sorry but both my legs are broken" because most of Joe Public appears to be selfish and entitled.

That may be so Tolitehostias but OP managed to encounter someone who thought it was okay to be verbally abusive to a post operative lady. It wasn't the fact that the ladies were pregnant that makes them "entitled". It is the fact that after OP explained to them that she was recovering from major abdominal surgery they still bullied her out of her seat. That is what makes them entitled. They should have then gone and asked one of those fit and healthy commuters to give up their seat for those who needed it more.