to think that this article is just another way to sneer at sahms? Motherism?

[usuallyright]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/18/sorry-but-being-a-mother-is-not-the-most-important-job-in-the-world

Whilst I agree with some of it, I don't like the sneery tone. There are many similar articles around at the moment about Mothers who choose to stay at home.
Imagine if someone wrote a similar article about working Mothers.
It's just another excuse to pour scorn on Mothers and their choices, which are often complex decisions, not a knee jerk decision to be a martyr..

Have been both SAHM, and WOHM - When DD1 was young, i had a full time job and/or full time university course/PhD. This was much easier, i feel than being a full time SAHM - because my parents looked after DD1 for me, i never had to worry about school holidays, pick ups etc etc. So just did my work, came home, picked up DD at no set time, sometimes my parents had given her tea.

With DD2 i don't have that luxury and have found the whole work/childcare balance too much, not just the childcare, the everything else that became easier for me when i had someone else to "do the parenting" for me. So compared to being SAHM, far more stressfull and exhausting.

So for me it was a scale of "toughness"

WOHM with grandparents to do childcare (piece of piss) - Full time SAHM (can be a bit monotonous, and being chief entertainments officer is knackering) - WOHM without grandparents and having to juggle after school club/ pick ups, holidays and DPs working times etc, (too much for me!)

I think it really depends on who you are, what your job is, what childcare arrangements you have etc.

Being a SAHM is not a job, it is however bloody important - being a SAHM is no better than being a WOHM

Why is this even a debate

And like I already explained to you piano - I was referring to housework and household duties etc, not the parenting of the child. So I don't know why you needed to make a point of it again.....

It's all moot though really isn't it.

There isn't really a choice for alot of women.

It's very Guardian to sit at your Apple laptop wringing your hands about what your lifestyle says about you, how hard you working, are you fulfilling your potential blah de blah.

For most women it's a case of pulling on your big girl's'pants and doing what needs to be done whether that be taking the brunt of the childcare and/or working.

Most women who need to work may not like it - but they get on with it while missing their children, other women cannot afford childcare and they decide to look after their children ft, where they look forward to being judged and patronised.

A lucky few get to make a choice and be happy with it.

I don't remember you explaining anything to me writer - are you sure you mean me?

Oh doesn't it make your heart sing when women turn to attack one another's life choices instead of just saying "I'm glad you had the freedom to choose what you wanted to do, I've chosen something different and that works for me."

Long live the sisterhood and all

I was a childminder but never thought if myself as 'parenting' mindees. I acted in loco parentis as I now do as a TA but that didn't make me the parent.

why in Earth are we having such a ridiculous Sahm v paid outside the home mother. how fucking dad in 2013.

parents generally do what's right for their own family unit, each is so different you can't compare.

fwiw I do think being a parent is the most challenging thing a human can do if they are trying to do a good job.

no dought arseholes like The Philpotts' found it a peice of piss as they couldn't give a crap about their kids.

most parents want to do the best job possible and it can be as hard as it is wonderful regardless of whether you are a sahm/ sahd or go out to work.

Sorry, my mistake piano - it was another poster. But I did message again on page 1 to apologise for not being clearer in my original post by not specifying that I meant working parents still have to do all the same housework/household duties as the SAHP does - as opposed to meaning they still have to do the same amount of parenting. If that makes sense

The article doesn't specifiy whether SAHM or WOHM (except to talk about the sliding scale). How do you know the article isn't also about wohms?

Motherhood is important.
Fatherhood is important.
Parenting is important.
Earning money, keeping the country running, saving lives, driving trains, teaching, selling, providing, servicing, discovering, inventing and clearing up the whole collective mess is important.

Parenting can be a tough job, it is a very valid job. But no-one has to be a parent and chose parenthood, let alone f/t sahm parenting. Maybe some people find it a really tough job, maybe others don't - those who do should maybe look at an alternative rather than expect others to fall at their martyred feet!

TantrumsAndBalloons post at 12:20:12.

Exactly what she said!

God this is annoying. As a sahm for 13 years I can tell you its not the hardest job in the world. My role of being a mother is no more difficult, or easier than being a mother who works out of the home.

Doing house stuff is easier because I'm at home. Parenting is the same for every one.

Journalists need to stop trying to create a story here. There isn't one. I don't care if women chose to work or stay at home, none of my business. There isn't a right or a wrong answer.

I don't give a shit whether anyone else thinks I should work or not. My life, my way.

But what is the definition of parenting?

I think of it as the acquisition of a small human and trying to get it to 20 with minimal fucking up along the way.

I'm sure others have different definitions.

janey68 how do you parent if you're not physically there? You may be biologically the parent, but practically you're not. And your child cares more about the practical than the biological during childhood.

parenting is a bloody abomination

I too saw it that my dc would be parented by somebody else if I was working.
I don't see as its something you can argue about because people obviously see the role of parenting differently and have different feelings towards that role.
Maybe a child doesn't need parenting when they are not with the biological parents and are cared for somewhere else. Maybe you see it that caring and educating/socialising is parenting and this is being done by nursery.
I don't think it matters to anybody else what your own view is.

Wombles- you seem very anxious to convince yourself that a WOHP is somehow not being a parent!

As to the definition of parenting: I think it's about a relationship. Installing values. It is far more than the sum of various practical tasks carried out throughout a day. My children are teenagers so have been in school for a significant part of their day for years. I don't stop being a parent while they're there. And their teachers don't start being a parent. Totally different ball game.

HTH

I don't find being a SAHM hard. Boring, at times, but not hard. I used to be a teacher. Now that was hard.

I can see where she's coming from although I don't think she makes her point terribly well. The "hardest job in the world" I think does get trotted out as a way to pat women on the head and make sure they carry on taking the bulk of the responsibility for cleaning, cooking and the rest of it.

Fatherhood is certainly as important a job as motherhood but men are happy to not make it the hardest job in the world so they can carry on in their working lives unchanged.

SAHM's often seem to get riled if people imply motherhood isn't "the hardest job etc." but really, I don't think the term is one they should be happy to pin on themselves.

parenting- getting them from babies to adulthood without scarring them for life, whilst trying to insert some life skills and common sense into their heads. Thats my definition. It seems to be working so far

womblesofwestminster

"how do you parent if you're not physically there? You may be biologically the parent, but practically you're not"

So from the moment our children start any form of schooling, we cease to be 'proper' parents??

Amen TantrumsandBalloons. THIS.

"And every single time I read them I think if people just stopped worrying about what everyone else was doing, and stopped thinking in order for their choice to be right, someone else's has to be wrong, then these threads wouldn't exist.

Because it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is you"

I think that it's easy to think when you have young children that parenting means you have to physically be there ALL the time. It really doesn't. As a parent if you have childcare you chose the best fit for your child, that in itself is parenting.

I think that parenting is to help a child grow into an adult who is thoughtful and responsible, and independent from its parents, without any psychological scarring if possible.

impty

I think that parenting is to help a child grow into an adult who is thoughtful and responsible, and independent from its parents, without any psychological scarring if possible.

YES!!!!!

I'm a stay at home mum (I usually use the term stay at home parent) and I'm also a feminist. The two aren't mutually exclusive and yet so many people think they are.

Our personal circumstances at the time of conception meant that it made far more sense for me to stay at home. If the situation had been different dp would have been the one to stay home.

I think whatever you choose has it's pro's and cons. I love getting to spend so much time with dd but I do envy my working friends because of the social aspect (among other things) and I know from talking to them that they like working and interacting with adults and the benefits of more money, satisfaction of career progression etc, but they also envy me and the amount of time I get with my dd.

It's something I'm constantly surprised that people (on both sides of the coin) are judged over. Though I suppose I shouldn't be given that a lot of motherhood seems to be a judge-fest!

Monicalewinski

If parenting is helping a child grow up to be thoughtful and responsible, independent from parents.
This is surely what childcare provision in nurseries is all about.

I don't think wombles was saying that working parents weren't proper parents just not full time as a nursery takes on parenting responsibilities in loco parentis.

Motherhood is important. I have the main responsibility of turning out well adjusted and happy children who will turn into happy, well adjusted members of the community who contribute to society positively. I think of mothers (myself and female friends) as being like a rock in a turbulent sea, steady and consistent. Holding things together for our families. Sadly not all mothers are able to give their child the best start and sometimes the result is a child lost at sea, who turns into an adult draining society.