OK, I should have asked first but I honestly don't see why it's such a big deal!

[DrSeuss]

DD plays the clarinet . We currently rent one. I saw one going very cheaply on eBay, collection only, four miles from SIL but hundreds of miles from us. We will be seeing SIL at Christmas. She is child free by choice. (Her husband is a giant toddler but that's a whole other story!). I bought the clarinette immediately before anyone else could. This will very soon pay for itself. I rang SIL, asking if she could collect it for me please. DD is her only niece, it was four miles. I would have done that without question for anyone I know. I genuinely saw no problem although I agree it would have been more polite to ask first. However, waiting for SIL to answer the phone or return an email can take time. She has no kids and works part time. Thirty minutes to help someone who has helped her parents a fair bit seemed a reasonable ask.
She will collect the clarinet for us, I have been informed. However, I am not to assume she will help at any other time unless I have her full consent in advance.

"The OP did ask - not tell - her SIL when it would be convenient for her"

That's not the point the SIL is making though. It's not about the OP deciding when the SIL should collect the clarinet, but that she just assumed SIL would collect it without bothering to ask her.

So in effect the OP has told the SIL ''you are collecting this because I've already bought it assuming you will, but I'll let you decide when you use your own time to go and fetch it." Which is rude even if someone doesn't mind doing the favour.

But we can only comment on the situations we read about on these threads, based on the evidence we are given! We cannot make up a completely unsupported hinterland of depression in SIL, other overwhelming demands on her time etc - we have to trust that we are being given all the major facts, or else you cannot give any opinion on anything!

As the situation has been presented, the OP did not have time to obtain agreement from her SIL before buying the clarinet, or she probably would have missed the opportunity. Because she didn't have time to ask her SIL in advance, she took a leap of faith and expected her SIL to show some empathy and understanding about the situation. The fact that her SIL didn't is a reflection on her character and in no way represents anything wrong with the OP.

"Her SIL's attitude seems very grudging and mean-spirited in the circumstances - her insistence on being asked in advance next time is an implicit objection to being asked on this occasion and is, quite clearly, intended to be seen as that."

But again, she wasn't asked on this occasion, she was told that the clarinet was already purchased with the intention that SIL could and would go and collect it.

It was presented as fait accompli to the SIL. 'We have bought a clarinet and we want you to collect it, store it and eventually deliver it to us. But you can decide which bit of your spare time you use to go and fetch it in.'

I really can't see that the SIL is unreasonable in agreeing to collect the clarinet this time but saying in future she would like to be asked before a favour is assumed of her. Especially as it took three telephone calls asking her if she minded for her to say that actually she does mind a little bit about not being asked first.

I would be seriously annoyed if someone did this to me. It's just so rude. I would never present my SIL with something as a fate accompli. She doesn't have children, but she has a life of her own and it's just basic, basic manners.

Well, I think your SIL is being reasonable, OP. It would have been polite to ask first, not just assume. I don't see the problem with her wanting you to check with her first in future before expecting her to do something, it's just good manners.

OrangeJuice has it spot on. It's basic manners. That's what matters, not whether people think she's being arsey or not. You just don't take people for granted like that.

"As the situation has been presented, the OP did not have time to obtain agreement from her SIL before buying the clarinet, or she probably would have missed the opportunity."

Again that's something else we don't know. The OP says that sometimes it can take SIL a while to reply to telephone calls and emails. Sometimes, not always.

The SIL seems to have been available for three telephone conversations about the clarinet after it was purchased. So she is answering some calls when they are made.

The OP does not say she even tried to ring SIL as soon as she saw the clarinet on eBay. Collection only items don't usually sell that quickly or instantly. An immediate telephone call to SIL should have been possible.

And if OP had to leave a message, that would have been the time to worry about SIL not replying on time and making a decision to wait or buy without asking then. It would have only taken a minute to try and ring before purchasing, even if OP dialled as she typed in her bid but before she confirmed it.

But from reading the OP, she made no attempt to ask SIL first.

"it would have been more polite to have asked her SIL before buying the clarinet but had a good reason in this case, not to have done so"

No, just no to all of this.

It would not have been "more polite" to have asked first, it was incredibly, unbelievably rude to have made an arrangement that presumed she would do this without asking her.

There was no "good reason" - the OP just fancied buying something on e-Bay and presume that other people should be roped into her plans without agreement, just because it suited her.

The only polite way to have done this would have been to have a back up plan and to ask for help with the back up plan acknowledged.

"Hey, I've ordered a clarinet near you because it seemed like a big bargain. Is there any way you could pick it up? No worries if not. I can pay to have it delivered if it won't work for you."

Calling someone up and telling them they have to pick up some piece of crap you've bought on e-Bay because you've already bought it on the basis that it would be collected by them is just out and out obnoxious.

I think in SIL's position, i'd either have said "yes I can do it" - and then done it without the whining, or said "no, really sorry I won't be able to"

You can either help or you can't.

All the OP did was take for granted a small amount of family support. If you can't, in unusual circumstances like these, expect your family to help you without obtaining formal agreement beforehand, then it is a sad reflection on ther relationships in that family.

I think it was very rude to not ask first. Yes you asked afterwards, but your sil would have felt pressured to say yes seeing as the address is near her.

I agree its nice to do favours for family, but you can't assume they will do it when there is no history of reciprocal favours or if they haven't offered to help out if that subject has come up.

To assume she is free just because of her child and work status is just rude again.

Why would you mention that you are a teacher unless you thought that made you superior to her in some way?

Does she even have a car or did you expect her to bus it? Where i live looking up an address, driving there, going round it circles for a while looking for it, finding a parking space (probably half mile away), walking to the house, waiting for the person to find the bloody instrument, giving it a quick check over before leaving, plus all the traffic would take longer than 30 minutes. Although i don't suppose it matters as she's not a teacher or a mother so what does her time matter.

I also have to ask. Why did you ask her and not your bil? Im really hoping that its not because as the woman she should do the running around

I think to summarize, it was just bloody cheeky and entitled of you op.

Your sil is being very tolerant in picking up the clarinet, under the circumstances, I wouldn't. You can't just make arrangements to take half an hour or so out of someones life without their consent. It's very rude and presumptuous to assume that people have nothing better to do than run around after you. What you choose to do for your pil has nothing to do with your sil and it doesn't make her indebted to you.

I suspect from your attitude and her reaction that you're always doing things like this and it's extremely annoying for her. She has requested you ASK in future, why should that be a problem?

My family would do anything to help each other out.

We would always ask first though.

In circumstances like these?! Its a musical instrument not impending death.

"the OP did not have time to obtain agreement from her SIL before buying the clarinet"

Which is why she shouldn't have bought it unless she had another plan for getting it delivered.

All this "I had NO CHOICE" is just bollocks.

There were plenty of choices that didn't involved commandeering someone else's time without their agreement.

But they didn't suit the selfish person presented with the choices, so she made the one that suited her best with no consideration of anybody else.

And then justifies it by saying she comes from a village where everyone takes one another for granted because they are all so totally wonderful .

"Its a musical instrument not impending death."

I know, you'd swear it was the last clarinet on planet earth the way some people were going on.

In reality, it was just some cheap e-Bay bargain that could well be a complete piece of crap.

Regular e-Bay use seems to do something weird to people's sense of perspective.

If it's just four miles away, surely you could have sent a cab to get it and have it dropped at her house? Then she could have offered to get it if she wanted to.

The poor OP! "Rude" and "obnoxious"! Even if you don't approve of what she did, the worst she could possibly be guilty of is a degree of thoughtlessness and an assumption that the mutual bonds of help and support within her family were stronger than - clearly - they actually were.

"Selfish", "bloody cheeky" "entitled"! No wonder the OP has fled! Insults are no substitute for rational argument.

We cannot make up a completely unsupported hinterland of depression in SIL, other overwhelming demands on her time etc - we have to trust that we are being given all the major facts, or else you cannot give any opinion on anything!

We are not being given all the major facts because the OP does not know all the major facts. She has made some sweeping assumptions, most notably that the SIL ought to be both able and willing to do her this favour. I am simply pointing out a few possibilities that she would not have known about, because she didn't ask. There are all sorts of reasons why it might have been inconvenient or downright impossible for even the most devoted, easy-going family member to help out. (The puppies were a complete flight of fancy, to be fair.)

Strictly speaking you should have asked first. But you didn't because you might well have lost the item. But on the other hand if somebody can't do such a small favour for somebody are they really worth bothering about. I would be thinking of not having a lot to do with her in future. Relative or not.

"an assumption that the mutual bonds of help and support within her family were stronger than - clearly - they actually were."

You obviously share the OP's passive aggressing, self-aggrandising view of the world.

"Oh, you have to do this thing for me that I decided you would do and it would be no trouble for you because you don't do anything important with your time. The reason I made this decision is because I am so wonderfully kind that I think nothing of being forced into doing jobs for other people, so if you object it's because you are not a kind and wonderful person like me."

The bonds in my family are very strong. But we still treat each other with basic consideration and manners.

OP what would it have taken to have texted her or left a voice message telling her the situation and asking if she would mind? YABU to go on about the childlessness and for not even attempting to ask her. So what if she asked for consent next time? That's her perogative.