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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Teacher has lost DS property

265 replies

conkercon · 15/11/2013 09:44

I need to know if I am right to be furious with a teacher at my ds school?

DS is 16 and for last two weeks has been wearing a small diamond stud to school that belonged to dh back in the day. We (I) found it recently and gave it to DS. I said to DS that he should not wear it because I thought that school policy was gold or silver, but he said that the Head of Year had seen him every day and had not said anything so he assumed that it was okay. Also in two weeks no other teacher (including the Head who he had spoken to for a few minutes) had mentioned it and they are normally pretty hot on uniform issues.

Yesterday DS subject teacher mentioned it and DS said that he thought it was okay because HOY had not said anything. Teacher emailed HOY saying DS had said HOY had said it was okay. HOY went straight to the class and asked him to take it out. No problem with that, but rather than let him keep it in his pocket, bag or whatever she took it and said he would not get it back until Christmas.

I spoke to her yesterday afternoon, apologised for him wearing it and said I would collect it today. She did not sound very happy, telling me it was locked away. I just told her that I would be in first thing this morning to collect it if she could leave it at reception.

She called me at 8.40pm last night to tell me that it has been lost!!!!! Apparently she put it in a sealed envelope and although the envelope is was still sealed the earing was not in it?? That is all I know because her attitude infuriated me even more, she wasn't apologising. I did point out that if she had just let DS keep it then if it had got lost it would have been his responsibility, but as she had chosen to take it then she should have looked after it properly. I asked her to call me back in the morning. I did not want to continue speaking to her as I was so cross I was scared I would say something that I would regret so it was better I calm down.

There are some fantastic teachers at this school who really care about the kids and I have the utmost respect for them. There are some good teachers who teach well, but are rather full of their own self importance and she is one of these. I have little respect for her unfortunately as her behaviour a couple of years ago on a school trip that my other DS went on was less than professional. As it did not affect the safety of the children I have never mentioned it and did not complain, but it made me see her in a totally different light. But I digress.

Am I being unreasonable to think that if you confiscate property then you should at least look after it?

OP posts:

Floggingmolly · 15/11/2013 20:39

Pretty much, bogey. You've handed responsibility for it's safekeeping onto someone who quite rightly has far more important issues to occupy her mind.
You forget; you accept the consequences, whatever they may be.

HorsePetal · 15/11/2013 20:41

You disagree bogey that you are ultimately responsible for yourself? As an adult?

Bogeyface · 15/11/2013 20:41

I would be interested to see that played out in RL though Flogging

Seems to me that on MN a lot of responses are based on "what I would like to think I would do" rather than what many people know they would do in reality.

Worried3 · 15/11/2013 20:41

I suggest that you take a deep breath and calm down.

You and your DS were in the wrong initially, the teacher accidently lost the earring. You are now going to be re-imbursed for this. Accept the re-imbursement and get on with it. This is really not worth getting so wound up about.

I think it is now getting personal as you don't like this teacher. Let it go, before you end up going to far and causing more problems for yourself.

Bogeyface · 15/11/2013 20:43

No. I disagree that the student in this case is responsible for the loss of the earring. Once it was removed from his care the teacher should have followed certain procedures and didnt. Due to that, it was lost.

If I handed valuables to someone who assured me they would be taken care of as per procedure and then they were lost, that person would be responsible.

Roussette · 15/11/2013 20:45

Bogey... I know what I would have done in reality as I've said before on here. I would have told my DC it is their fault for flouting the rules. You take that risk when you decide to do that... sometimes you walk away and all is OK, sometimes you don't. He didn't... his responsibility. He isn't 9 for goodness sake... he knew he shouldn't have worn it.

BehindLockNumberNine · 15/11/2013 20:46

Bogeyface, the hospital does not have a uniform policy telling you not to wear a wedding ring.
The school was very clear on the policy regarding earrings. And the one the OP's ds was wearing did not conform to policy. He should not have been wearing them.

bubalou · 15/11/2013 20:47

Kids aren't meant to have phones in school but if that got confiscated and lost then you'd be bloody angry too.

Just because it's an earring doesn't make it less important. He should t have been wearing it but she should t have lost it.

perfectstorm · 15/11/2013 20:47

So many times we see this goady 'ha ha' attitude from adults who left school long ago but can't quite seem to shake off the teacher/pupil dynamic.

On a personal level I know five people who teach (one is a close blood relative, two are close friends); I have no doubt all are excellent teachers. I think any child would be lucky to be taught by them. I also have no truck with the idea that kids should be allowed to treat a teacher with anything but respect, because they're kids, and in school, and they need to learn that if someone is in authority over you, then short of serious breaches of trust you have to respect the position; the personality is a relative irrelevance, unless committing an active breach of trust/gross misconduct type scenario. But nor do I have truck with the idea that adults should permanently retain that childlike perspective regarding teachers, and assume all are somehow superior human beings, incapable of behaving in a shoddy or stupid or unpleasant way. They're just people, doing an (admittedly immensely tough and egregiously unappreciated/unrewarded) job. Not all will be pleasant, or competent... or emotionally equipped to handle a level of authority you don't get in many jobs, but they absolutely need to deploy from day one, if they are to teach in any effective manner. And funnily enough, the people I know most allergic to the kind of arrogance displayed by this teacher are my teacher friends and family. They say it's an occupational hazard in the less secure person, and one they have little time for, because as an amazing link one of those fab teachers posted on Facebook says, kids don't learn from people they don't like.

I don't think this teacher did anything wrong in confiscating the item. Nothing. I think she should have told the teacher on the spot to do it rather than coming over, but I can see why she was pissed off at being brought into it when she almost certainly hadn't ever noticed the stud was diamond and not plain. Up till then, my sympathies are with her. But once she had confiscated it, her truly amazing carelessness with valuable property not her own, followed by dishonesty over that carelessness, and topped off by staggering rudeness to the parent - who had not broken any rules, was not under her authority, and whose valuable and emotionally important family possession she had lost through sheer stupidity - is extraordinary. I find it hard to feel any sympathy for that behaviour because it's unprofessional on just about every level.

The 16 year old was being a teenager. That's what you expect. The adult here hasn't behaved like one, and the lack of responsibility and maturity on the facts as we have been told them amazes me. Her profession is incidental to that, to my mind. I don't see her being a teacher as relevant, except that some teachers are so used to authority they seem unable to back down, even when that attitude's completely inappropriate. And that is the view of my aunt and both the teachers I know well - I've not felt it tactful to raise it with the other two!

Bogeyface · 15/11/2013 20:50

Kids aren't meant to have phones in school but if that got confiscated and lost then you'd be bloody angry too.

I was about to mention that!

Do you have any idea how much stuff is confiscated in a week?! Illicit phones, jewellery, ipods used in class, etc

If all of that was "lost" there would be uproar! When you remove something from the care of a student into the care of the school it becomes the schools repsonsibility. Thats why there are guidelines.

You may not like it but thats how it is.

Why is THAT so hard to understand?!

FlankShaftMcWap · 15/11/2013 20:55

The teacher will have been aware that the instant she took possession of the item she became responsible for it, that much is clear from the guidelines posted earlier in the thread. If she wasn't willing to accept that responsibility then she should have asked that OP's DS take it out and put it away himself. She chose to accept the responsibility, then she made a mistake. Confiscation - fine
Loss of item - unfortunate but unintended
Senior member of staff wilfully lying to parent - really not fine

Roussette · 15/11/2013 20:56

Bogey... I do understand that. All I am saying is... some you win, some you lose. I would have no sympathy with my DC whatsoever. This is what happens in life... things go wrong, people are busy doing the job they are so say employed to do, hard lesson to learn maybe or perhaps her DC doesn't even care that much and it's only his DM who does.

FlankShaftMcWap · 15/11/2013 20:58

Cross post. perfectstorm had nail firmly on head before I could hit the post button

Bogeyface · 15/11/2013 21:02

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying "oh poor boy.....horrid bitch teacher" not at all.

No, he shouldnt have had it and if he hadnt had it in school then it couldnt have been lost. That fact isnt in dispute.

What I do dispute is the assertion made by many on here that the teacher should not be held responsible for her actions after she removed it. As Flank said, she didnt need to confiscate it but given that she did, she should have followed the rules and didnt. Also, she lied, was rude and did not apologise thus compounding the original error. Lets face it, if she had rung the OP saying that she was very sorry, she couldnt find it, would look for it and if it didnt turn up would arrange a replacement, then the OP wouldnt have gone up in flames.

As has been mentioned above, some teachers do seem to think that "Me=teacher" means "everyone else=child" so the teacher is always right regardless of the facts!

Floggingmolly · 15/11/2013 21:02

Her truly amazing carelessness with valuable property
I'll give you the carelessness, maybe, but on the valuable front - would you really expect an earring removed from a 16 year old student to actually contain a real diamond?

She probably imagined she was dealing with something worth a tenner at most, and easily replaced.

Sister77 · 15/11/2013 21:35

He was wrong to take it in, she was wrong to lose it and lie. Op I'm more interested in what she did that you now see her in another light, (sorry I'm nosy)!

ilovesooty · 15/11/2013 22:03

The very fact that the teacher telephoned the OP at 8:40pm indicates that she was worried about the situation in my opinion.

nennypops · 15/11/2013 22:12

and flank why should the teacher have to 'panic like fuck'? She shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place. She is a teacher, there to educate our children. Not act as a security guard or guardian of property.

Which is why this school had a system in place so that valuable objects should be handed over to the person whose job it was to look after property like this. Only she disregarded that system, then chose to lie about it. The only reason she was "put in that position" is because she chose to be. If as a teacher you don't want to be sensible about things you confiscate, then don't confiscate them.

Floggingmolly · 15/11/2013 22:17

She was put in that position because a 16 year old student wore a valuable diamond to school, in clear breach of school rules because he assumed they didn't apply to him.

dustarr73 · 15/11/2013 22:21

We are going round in circles you cant compare a 16 year old kid wiht a teacher.Even if the kids dont follow rules and they dont the teacher should.No ifs or buts about it.You cant have it both ways follow my rules but i can do what i like.

dustarr73 · 15/11/2013 22:23

No she was put in the position because she didnt follow procedure ,nothing to do with op or her son.Its down tot eh teacher if she hadnt taken it off him he would still have it.

ilovesooty · 15/11/2013 22:31

And if he hadn't brought it into school in the first place he wouldn't have had it confiscated.

perfectstorm · 15/11/2013 22:32

She was put in that position because a 16 year old student wore a valuable diamond to school, in clear breach of school rules because he assumed they didn't apply to him.

Both assumed the school rules didn't apply to them. One was a 16 year old kid. One was an adult in a position of great trust and considerable authority. Which of the two do you think had a greater obligation to ensure the school's rules and guidelines were responsibly adhered to?

Bogeyface · 15/11/2013 22:36

a 16 year old student wore a valuable diamond to school, in clear breach of school rules because he assumed they didn't apply to him.

He is 16! No one actively said "you shouldnt wear that, its against the rules" so he did what 99.9% of 16 year olds would do and think "must be ok" and didnt bother to check. Out of the two of them I think the OP is more at fault there, I never take my kids word for it on anything to do with school rules that goes in the kids favour!

Doesnt mean that the teacher wasnt wrong too though.

Just because the Op and her son were wrong doesnt mean that the teacher was automatically right. They all made mistakes, but in the case of the lost earring, the teacher must carry the can as she took responsibility for it when she confiscated it.

notmyproblem · 15/11/2013 23:05

If the stuff that kids aren't allowed to have at school gets confiscated and it's their own fault and nobody's responsibility (or blame), why not just sell all that jewellery, ipods, etc. on ebay? I mean, how could that be wrong if the kids/parents are 100% to blame for allowing it to be brought to school in the first place?

Should be advertised as a perk of the job for teachers, in fact: "you can keep and sell everything you confiscate from the kids">

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