to think that appearance shouldn't matter?

[JollyStoutGiant]

If you're looking to have a business relationship with someone surely you should simply require them to be good at their job. They don't need to have dry hair, make up on, a nice bag. Presumably the more time they spend on their appearance the less they spend on doing the job you require them to do.

Similarly if you're looking for someone to have an emotional relationship with. You need to get on with them. Surely whether or not they've ironed their t-shirt shouldn't be a consideration?

Why is it the case that humans, often, try to find someone who spends time on their appearance? Even on MN where there are so many feminist viewpoints the majority of posters still expect professional colleagues to look like they've made an effort.

I don't understand why these things are important.

Until I came on here, it would never have crossed my mind that anyone would be disgusted (or just look down on) wet hair. What's wrong with water? There can't be a more emotionally neutral fluid on a person. If anything, it has good connotations. I mean, if someone has wet hair, that probably means they've just washed it, which is good.

Someone said it takes five minutes to blow dry hair, so it shows laziness not to do it. But why the assumption that dry hair is better than wet? I don't get it: what exactly is wrong/unpleasant about wet hair? Short or tied up hair can look the same (stylistically rather than in exact colour) regardless of whether or not it's dry, its appearance doesn't really change as it dries. I suppose some hair only looks good when it is dry and styled, is that the issue?

Similarly, before I saw it in an episode of "Friends", it never occurred to me that anyone would find human milk disgusting. To me it's just milk, you know like you get from a cow or a goat or a camel, but from a human. To others it's a bodily fluid, so apparently automatically revolting.

I think, like the breast-milk haters, the wet-hair haters have some sort of hang-up or internal association that they haven't realised not everyone shares.

(I suppose the fact that I don't get it may have something to do with me not being female?)

FraidyCat , that's exactly what I'm talking about! I had no idea, until a thread on here, that my views on wet hair are only held by a very small minority.

(I am female though)

Agree about the wet hair. It makes no difference to anything at all.

Heartbrokenmum73 presumably you do wear clothes to work though? So while you say that anyone who judges you based on your appearance can bugger off, you're still adhering to SOME form of giving-a-shit because if you weren't, you wouldn't bother with clothes at all. I assume that your work wardrobe doesn't include a PVC catsuit, a bowler hat or a onesie? So your appearance does matter to some extent.

It's different if hair has been styled in a bun or whatever when wet, but as a rule, I expect to do business with people who have dry hair. I can't imagine attending a meeting - or job interview - where half the people there had wet hair. That isn't about going overboard or having unrealistic expectations about appearances, it is about what would be appropriate when doing business. Wet hair would not be appropriate to me in the that particular social situation.

IMO there's only a problem when a person's self esteem is balanced precariously on how they look so that one negative comment or a few extra pounds has them really anxious and worried. Or like my friend at school who wouldn't contemplate leaving the house without make up.

I knew someone who worked in IT, went for a (contract) job interview with a bank, who were extremely disconcerted that he not only didn't wear a suit for the interview, but told them point blank he wouldn't be wearing one if he got the job. His attitude was that no-one was going to tell him how to dress. By the time the bank had decided they could cope with his dress sense, he'd landed a contract elsewhere, at £1300 a week, which was a lot of money, back in 1988. (

You must be so proud elskovs.

See, FraidyCat, I wouldn't want to work with someone like that. I often have to do things which I think are shit because work ask me to or expect me to do it. Your acquaintance’s refusal to wear a suit to an interview just suggests that he’s arrogant and feels that the rules/expectations of most workplaces don’t apply to him.

In an analogy comparable to your “wet hair haters = breast milk haters” statement, I’ve found most people who get het up about things like this are awkward and inflexible when it comes to doing things outside their job description.

I actively do not go for very well groomed people when employing because in my experience most of my clients feel uncomfortable dealing with people who do smart as opposed to casual smart so won't engage with them.

Your acquaintance still supports the idea that appearance matters fraidy. To him appearance was even more important than a job.

Perpendicular I don't mind what other people wear or do, I resent if I am expected to do something I'm not comfortable with.

I don't agree that lack of time spent on appearance means low self esteem or lack of self respect. I had a lot less self respect as a teen but I spent a lot more time on how I looked. I'm confident and comfortable enough with myself to wear clothes that feel nice and wash easily rather than ones that look a certain way.

to be honest my biggest problem is that if I wore my dressing gown to do the school run I'd be considered unhinged.

but I love wearing my dressing gown. it's warm and fluffy and long and comfy.....

You're not expected to look a certain way or do things you aren't comfortable with though. You can have your appearance however you want and be as comfortable as you want but would have to live your life accordingly. Like if I wanted to wear tracksuits everyday, I can but I would have to accept that means certain jobs or places that require smart dress are out of bounds for me. I could go to work with wet hair every day if I wanted but I would have to accept that other people might not like it and I might be passed over for promotions etc in favour of people who do look like they got out of bed in time for work. Do and wear what you want but it's just a fact of life that it will affect people's opinions of you. It's up to you whether you change your appearance or not.

Sock - good point, I have just returned from a meeting where one person was so 'well groomed' (ie: totally OTT) that she looked ridiculous, considering we are working with vulnerable families I should imagine she would frighten anyone off with her inch thick make up, stilettos and fish-net tights

For me it's about interest and respect. If someone I was romantically involved in regularly wore wrinkled and unironed clothes and took no particular interest in their appearance above the bare essentials, then the message I'd take from that is that they really couldn't be bothered. They're sending out take me or leave me signals.

I find this a really self-absorbed attitude. Since when was someone else's attitude towards their own appearance some kind of message to you? It's not about you. At all. Unless it's in the context of maybe a social occasion that was a big deal for you, with certain rules and they know it would embarass you if they really stood out. But as a general day to day rule, this is not about you (other than it says a lot about your priorities and your compatability).

I don't hate wet hair and I don't have a reaction to the water at all, if I went round to a friend's house and she had wet hair or I went out with partially dried hair on the school run, so what? But in a work context, really wet hair would be odd, it would drip for a start (if very short, it would have dried by the time you got there)- although quite a few people in my work do go to the gym and then their hair dries later. In a customer/client facing role, visibly dripping hair is odd, if you are in your own little office having just come from the gym, not so weird.

"I also think its a naïve thing to say. Ive said before that my husband doesn't employ very overweight people (or smokers) because he says it shows lack of self discipline and self respect."

This is absolutely ludicrous. Con

Similarly if you're looking for someone to have an emotional relationship with. You need to get on with them. Surely whether or not they've ironed their t-shirt shouldn't be a consideration?

Do you include sexual in emotional? If so YABU - how someone appears, looks after themselves, feels and smells is hugely important to a relationship.

shallow

All the judginess about wet hair is insane! There's loads of people saying they can't imagine having a business meeting with someone with wet hair, and that it sends the message that you can't be bothered to get up 5 minutes earlier to do it.

But WHY does it matter? WHY does it send that message, and why is that a bad thing? What is actually INFERIOR about wet hair as opposed to dry hair? It's just not logical. Just ingrained social craziness. It's not unpleasant for anyone else (unlike BO). There's no conceivable actual reason. And as someone else pointed out, having wet hair at least shows you washed it!

Wheareas there can be good reasons for not always having dry hair - ie not wanting to buy a hairdryer to please other people's arbitrary expectations, not wanting to waste time/electricity, not wanting to heat-damage your hair, and equally not wanting to get up 3 hours before you leave the house to let it try naturally!

Plus, again, it's actually a burden that places itself more on women than men, since most men have hair that will dry in a very short space of time, whereas to arrive at work with dry hair (esp in winter) most women would need to blow dry.

And Mumsyblouse the dripping argument is just bizarre. Clearly wet in this context refers to damp/towel dry not just-stepped-out-the-shower-and-not-touched-it.

Heartbrokenmum73 presumably you do wear clothes to work though? So while you say that anyone who judges you based on your appearance can bugger off, you're still adhering to SOME form of giving-a-shit because if you weren't, you wouldn't bother with clothes at all. I assume that your work wardrobe doesn't include a PVC catsuit, a bowler hat or a onesie? So your appearance does matter to some extent.

That doesn't necessarily follow. It just could just mean that at the level of wearing some clothes / not wearing a bowler hat, her personal tastes happen to coincide with society's expectations.