Just got DP's opinion on Rape - not impressed AIBU

[wurzelmini]

Must admit, have had a few glasses of wine so i'm really not sure if I am BU or not. Was having a conversation with 'dp' about his families religion (Jehovah's) and asking what I would be allowed to wear to a meeting as he had expressed an interest in going to one after many years of not going.
I am not religious but was quite interested in their views on how women dressed and he said I shouldn't expose certain areas as they wouldn't like it.

The conversation then got on to how women dressed when out on an evening and I said it wouldn't make any difference if identical twins walked down the same street at night one in jeans, one in a mini skirt, if a rapist was in the area they would take either regardless of how they were dressed - we have now disagreed as he believes a rapist would not attack a woman in jeans!!

Am really annoyed at his opinion but am really not sure if IAIBU???

I think your husband is referring to which one HE would rape first.....he needs castrating.

Pato, from the patients that have told me their stories and the stories that colleagues have shared during group support there doesn't seem to be any single thread as why people are raped, it just happens because there are rapists in the world, there is no victim factor.
Rape is such a henious crime that rape myths exist to comfort the rest of society. People can think "well I'm not a woman" or "I'm not outside after dark" or "I'm completely covered from head to toe" and feel safe. As I said up thread the truth, that any human could potentially be a victim of rape, is too horrific to take in.
I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. I think your attacker would have done what he did had he found himself in the same situation with anyone, wearing anything, it was his sense of entitlement that lead to your assault. Your choice of outfit as an excuse he made to himself after the fact.

It's the phrase " acceptable attire for his religion" that got me. I'd run a mile from any man or religion that told me what I could or couldn't wear.

So In the recent heat wave, we all went to work in bikinis, etc?

No, we didn't because we have a cultural norm around dress, as some religions do, for both genders.

Nor did our children go to school in their underwear, even though my friends three year old certainly wanted to.

All cultures have Norms.

My Sikh preacher male friend could not conduct a ceromony with a shaved head, for example.

Religious expectations exist, whether you want people who believe these in your life, takes good communication and not assumption making.

I worry about you being with a man who thinks this way, to be honest

Not read the entire thread but I am thinking, in your scenario of two women, one in jeans one in mini skirt it is quite obvious the one in the mini skirt would be more at risk. Nothing to do with a miniskirt being a provocation, just an easier item of clothing to get rid of.

In real life, I am a firm believer that the rapist is ALWAYS at fault, regardless of what the woman wears.

gorionine not all rapists choose the easy option. Some do because succeeded is what makes them feel powerful. That and they know that rape myths could offer them a degree of protection from being convicted or even reported in the first place.

However other rapists gain their feelings of being powerful from raping someone they regard as a challenge, someone who they may feel in their twisted mind needs brought down a peg or two.

So it's not obvious at all

Gorionine, sadly that's not the way these things happen and thinking like that, although I'm aware your only hypothesising, is why the rape conviction rate is so low. I've heard of some really calculated attacks where the victim was by no means the easiest target.
Also by the rational that the easiest target will be attacked the most at risk person is the lad who's peeled off from his pals to go and have a pee in the bushes or down an alley or someone having an afternoon snooze with the windows open.

Cross posts with Grumpy.

Birdsgottafly the general cultural norms of what is acceptable to wear by women, men or children at work, school or on the beach are a million miles from being dictated to by a patriarchal religion or some bloke telling me to dress modestly.

why not dress modestly? my gran used to say 'if you put all the goods in the window, no-one needs to come into the shop'.

dress modestly, try to avoid being unaccompanied. keep safe.

but the rapist is always at fault. even if he's your husband and you've had sex with him thousands of times before.

MrsWedge - yes, an excuse. Of course it was but some men still think that dressing a certain way indicates that you are inviting sexual comment or behaviour.

That is NOT to say that I caused it to happen by wearing something, that was his doing, but I hope you can see what I am saying. This was a lad on a lads holiday and he was looking for someone to do this to. He interpreted my clobber as an acceptance = it wasn't as I was just a girl tryingt o look grown up. But he didn't know that till I told him I wasn't up for it and he chucked me out into the street at 2 am.

He didn't set out to rape anyone and he stopped when I got pissed off

he just misinterpreted my clothes

Birdsgottafly the general cultural norms of what is acceptable to wear by women, men or children at work, school or on the beach are a million miles from being dictated to by a patriarchal religion or some bloke telling me to dress modestly.

But from what I know of JW's and other Religions (not fundamentalists, or bigots) dress codes exist for both genders.

As I said, I doubt the OP's DH would go to Church in shorts, or uncovered arms.

That is a side issue from him thinking women in jeans do not get raped.

The two are different issues.

"Why not dress modestly?"

Because otherwise some man won't be able to control himself? Because it shows I'm gagging for it?

I'm at a loss for words really, hopefully some one else will pitch in.

Myth The woman did not get hurt or fight back. It could not have been rape.

Fact Men who rape or sexually assault women and girls will often use weapons or threats of violence to intimidate women. The fact that there is no visible evidence of violence does not mean that a woman has not been raped.

Another myth that goes hand in hand with this is that ' rape is a fate worse than death' and this links with the belief that women should fight and resist throughout. Faced with the reality of rape, women make second by second decisions, all of which are directed at minimising the harm done to them. At the point where initial resistance, struggling, reasoning etc have failed, the fear of further violence often limits women's resistance. The only form of control that seems available to women at this point is limiting the harm done to them.

Going by that it really doesn't matter what clothes is worn.

If you are terrified and think you are going to die then the safest option is to just allow the sexual assult to take place.

I think when going into a new environment most of us do ask what 'the norm' is. For example when doing the first day of a new office-based job I would probably dress conservatively. So I'd probably play it safe when going to a new church. However if I got frowned at for say, wearing trousers or something like that, I'd probably feel, 'Well it was interesting going along, but this isn't a place that I really want to attend on a regular basis.'

I imagine that many men who have been bought up in Bible-based Churches may have been given some very traditional teachings about what 'good' and 'bad' women are like. The idea of women tempting men also goes back to Early Church interpretations of Genesis.

But I suppose if I was in a relationship with a man from such a background, I'd be interested in the distance they had traveled from their upbrininging. And also why they were interested in revisiting their religious roots?

I'd dump a bloke for thinking like that TBH, what an absolute douchebag

why not dress modestly? Because it doesn't prevent rape for the individual and opinions such as this give the broader message that being raped is due to what the victim chose to wear.

my gran used to say 'if you put all the goods in the window, no-one needs to come into the shop'. What's your point? That a woman's body is like produce? That raping is like walking in to a shop? I don't get it.

dress modestly, try to avoid being unaccompanied. keep safe. see above.

I was just thinking about the case I mentioned up thread about the judge reducing a sentence based on the victim's actions prior to the crime. Presumably, the barrister representing the rapist must have used the CCTV footage as part of their defence for the judge to have been aware of it and use it in his sentencing. This implies that a whole court of barristers, jury etc let this stand as a reasonable defence or at least a mitigating circumstance. No fucking wonder conviction rates are so low.

I'm going to ask DH when he gets home if he can remember anything else about the case and I'm going to look into it further.

Change the question to which would he attack.

Disgusting view and one that is unfair to men and women.

Men that rape are sociopaths, bullies, abusers. They don't rape because they are men with inate uncontrollable urges.

Your DP is not a rapist and therefore has not a clue about the thought process of a rapist. He is making incorrect assumptions.
Extensive research has been done into the thought processes of rapists, which completely contradict your DP's opinions.

In other words, he hasn't got a clue what he is talking about.

what mostwicked said. Please tell him what she said in her post. It's worrying that he has such a poor understanding of sexual violence - what if he gets called up for jury service?

Vivacia - The saying from the gran about the shop window isn't what you think ! It means that the womans body is very special and that a bloke has to be really special to be allowed to see it. It is a special part of a woman and is to be treasured.

At the end of May I went out for a drink with work. I was wearing jeans.

Got a taxi home, told him I was starving and he offered to stop at mcdonalds. I got a drink and cheeseburger.

I have no idea how it happened but I woke the next morning without a stitch on.

A friend got the taxi with me but he insisted she get dropped off first.

These cunts don't give a flying fuck what your wearing.