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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Just got DP's opinion on Rape - not impressed AIBU

189 replies

wurzelmini · 02/11/2013 21:31

Must admit, have had a few glasses of wine so i'm really not sure if I am BU or not. Was having a conversation with 'dp' about his families religion (Jehovah's) and asking what I would be allowed to wear to a meeting as he had expressed an interest in going to one after many years of not going.
I am not religious but was quite interested in their views on how women dressed and he said I shouldn't expose certain areas as they wouldn't like it.

The conversation then got on to how women dressed when out on an evening and I said it wouldn't make any difference if identical twins walked down the same street at night one in jeans, one in a mini skirt, if a rapist was in the area they would take either regardless of how they were dressed - we have now disagreed as he believes a rapist would not attack a woman in jeans!!

Am really annoyed at his opinion but am really not sure if IAIBU???

OP posts:
DalmationDots · 02/11/2013 22:06

IMO the woman wearing the skirt first because of ease. And as disgusting as it is, because of the way such men think, because if dressed like that she may be drunk/less resistant or whatever.
BUT, big BUT, she would be equally as innocent and equally not whatsoever her fault as the jeans woman, because nothing is OK about rape and it is equally as bad whether the woman is naked, wearing a short skirt or wearing the ugliest outfit possible. It is never, ever the victims fault in any way. It is completely disgusting and life-destroying whatever the woman was wearing. The man is completely the one in the wrong and never ever should someone be made to think it was even the tiniest bit their fault because of their clothes/being drunk/walking alone.

DalmationDots · 02/11/2013 22:06

Ps been on the wine too so apologies if that wasn't very clear

waltermittymissus · 02/11/2013 22:10

And, OP, he hasn't clarified anything by saying it would be twins together.

He's just made himself sound more sinister, to be frank.

BerstieSpotts · 02/11/2013 22:13

I think if twins are walking down the street together then the "hypothetical opportunistic rapist" would be likely to avoid both of them and go for someone who's on their own, so that there are no witnesses.

Come on - he is wrong, yes, but he's being a bit thick/buying into very common assumptions about the motivation of rapists here, not deigning that it's fine for men to rape women who wear skirts. Firstly it's not even a likely scenario of rape so it's totally ridiculous and pointless to even discuss it. Secondly he probably just hasn't thought about it and he's just arguing the point now because you've argued back.

If he literally believes that "a rapist wouldn't attack a woman in jeans" then he's being a knob (but from your other posts I don't think he is saying this?) but in the "scenario" you put forward, really, you could argue anything because it's totally irrelevant to any actual scenario of rape.

PublicEnemyNumeroUno · 02/11/2013 22:14

Anyone remember that advert where a woman is buying a mini skirt and she tells the shop assistant that she wants something that will make a man rape her or something along those lines?

Nobody "asks" to be raped because of what they are wearing.

The story up thread about the woman smiling and chatting to the man who later raped her is sickening, what did the fucking judge think she was chatting to him about? "oh hi stranger, later i'll be walking home alone, why dont you follow me and rape me?!" that judge wants fucking sacked Angry Angry

AnyFuckerWillDo · 02/11/2013 22:16

Omg, depends...

If he is seeing this from a dumbass rapists eye then course the girl in the mini is gonna catch his sexual orientated eye n she will ?probably get the rapist attention. BUT if he is saying that would be his impression/argument/action/pov the he is a victim blaming ass (this would be a deal breaker for me)

BerstieSpotts · 02/11/2013 22:17

Sorry, I'm really not seeing the "sinister" or "he has a fantasy" angle here.

He sounds ignorant but not sinister. IMO.

Vivacia · 02/11/2013 22:18

In English?

DebrisSlide · 02/11/2013 22:19

He sounds like he is speaking from the privilege of not really having had to think about rape before. That's my most charitable thought.

OverAndAbove · 02/11/2013 22:21

LTB!

Spikeytree · 02/11/2013 22:22

Rape is NOT about sex.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 02/11/2013 22:23

Similar scenario I was just wondering about: if a violent assailant wants to glass someone and has to choose between someone wearing a baseball cap and someone wearing a hoodie - who would he choose?

Just interested to know the DP's OP's view on that.

MrsWedgeAntilles · 02/11/2013 22:24

Dalmation please don't try to put yourself into the head of a rapist. They do it because they want to and will manipulate a situation to get what they want.
The whole revealing clothing, dark alleys, asking for it, it only happens to women thing is a fiction we tell ourselves as a society because what actually happens, that anyone, of any age or gender could become a victim, is far to horrific to face up to.

MortifiedAnyFuckerAdams · 02/11/2013 22:24

Rape isnt about attraction, lust or fancying the 'hottie in the mini skirt".

Rape is a pursuit of power, dominance and overtaking the rights woman to feed the ego of the bastard.

Clothing, appearance, all irrelevant.

BerstieSpotts · 02/11/2013 22:28

That's exactly what I think Debris.

He's looking at it dispassionately like you or I might look at a crime that we have no emotional investment in. If I wanted to stab someone, I think I'd go for someone who looked weak compared with someone who looked like they had big muscles and could overpower me.

In reality, people stab other people for all sorts of reasons but usually not relating to how weak they look or, in fact, opportunistically. People don't stand on street corners waiting for someone to come along so that they can stab them.

It's the same for rape of course, but he's not really thinking about it in that much detail. He's just going on logic. "Person wants to rape other person = rapist goes for target with least obstacles".

MrsWedgeAntilles · 02/11/2013 22:29

I agree Mortified, rape is a lot more akin to murder than consensual sex.

waltermittymissus · 02/11/2013 22:36

Rape has NOTHING to do with attraction and EVERYTHING to do with power/control.

The reason I have a problem is because it has followed on from a conversation about what a women should wear.

So; "wear something that covers you" followed by "a woman in a skirt would be raped first" kind of leads you to believe that he thinks a woman's clothing affects whether she's raped or not.

That's victim blaming.

MortifiedAnyFuckerAdams · 02/11/2013 22:43

OP, god forbid you were raped, would he look to you for a reason why? As opposed to wanting to punish the rapist?

peggyundercrackers · 02/11/2013 22:46

walter it did follow on from a conversation about what a woman should be but it is his religion which he has taken this from. if we were speaking about a muslim woman and how she has been conditioned to dress a certain way would he get as much flak about what his religion thinks? I don't think so...

berstiespotts - I think you have summed up what he thought and what a lot of men would think. Most men aren't rapists and don't think the same way as a rapist and probably want absolutely nothing to do with rapists.

waltermittymissus · 02/11/2013 22:49

if we were speaking about a muslim woman and how she has been conditioned to dress a certain way would he get as much flak about what his religion thinks?

If it was implied that a woman would somehow be implicit in her attack due to her clothing you bet your arse she'd be getting as much "flak".

He wouldn't be the first person I've come across hiding behind religion for rape apology. That doesn't make it ok.

crazyspaniel · 02/11/2013 22:52

Some Indian ladies have made a revelatory video about why men rape:

Spikeytree · 02/11/2013 22:53

I think it is really important that men (and women) do understand the psychology of rape, because otherwise you end up with rape apologists like the judge mentioned above.

To have this happen to you is enough to destroy your life. To then be told that maybe if you'd done something different you wouldn't have 'provoked' the attack really is twisting the knife. There is a reason most rapes aren't prosecuted and we are staring it right in the face on this thread.

FortyDoorsToNowhere · 02/11/2013 23:04

It's quite interesting that Muslim immigrants in sweeden was blamed for the rise in rapes, on my phone so can't link the articles. But sweeden has been dubbed as the rape capital of the world.

Not clear in the reading if it was Muslim men or women. But if it is Muslim women more likley to get raped in Sweeden then clothing really doesn't come into it as Muslim women tend to cover up.

anonacfr · 02/11/2013 23:16

I remember the following incident but it seems so shocking that I thought it was an urban myth.
But no, one click of Google and I found it straight away...

www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2010/05/skinny-jeans-defense-clears-australian-man-of-rape-charges/24550/