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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
morethanpotatoprints · 01/11/2013 18:13

I think because our dc have a different view of events than adults do is a reason why parents should complain when they feel an injustice has been done.
It is true that as adults we remember these things that happened to us at school.
if you mention unfairness of teachers to anybody they will have a story to tell.
Only the other day my dd and I were visitors in a high school. It was long after school time and the homework club was emptying. This group of three boys came out with the usual rough and tumble and one started pushing one of the others, only in jest. Ok, shouldn't be doing it but it wasn't fighting.
A teacher came round the corner just as the pushed boy happened to push back. You'd have thought he'd killed his grandma from the reaction of the teacher. He was yelling at the wrong child and my dd was scared she's only 9. She said how unfair the teacher was and how the punishment of detention was unfair.
I waited until dc had gone as didn't want to undermine the teacher, then I found him and told him the real state of the event. I can bet my life the wrong child still had the detention.

chchchchchangesusername · 01/11/2013 18:14

When I was in junior school I was made to stand in a corner and face the wall for being a royal pain in the arse. When I kept looking around and making faces at my classmates the teacher ended up pinning my plaits to the wall!!
I didn't tell my mum about my...er...terrible trauma of pathogenic effects and peer humiliation Grin though because she would have gone mental. At me I mean, for misbehaving.
And besides, it made me a LEGEND in the playground for weeks afterwards!

Thymeout · 01/11/2013 18:17

Please note that the teacher did try to contact OP. She did not answer the phone so the teacher left a message, explaining what the detention was for.

I don't see the point of any further conversation, since OP wasn't there. Neither her ds nor his friend dispute that he made the remark, which presumably fuelled the giggling.

He wasn't punished twice. He was separated from the class - I'm imagining this happening in a large space like a school hall - and told to turn his back to them so as not to further egg them on.

The detention was for disrupting the lesson by shouting out the remark.

Involving the deputy and the HT and initiating a grievance procedure are a ludicrous overreaction. This is secondary school. If OP wishes to discuss her ds's exceptional sensitivity to rebuke, she should contact his form teacher or head of year.

OP - have you any idea how trivial this incident is compared to all the other things that a Head and SMT have to deal with in the course of an average day? Child Protection issues, staff competency procedures, finance, Ofsted compliance, health and safety etc etc etc.

Want2bSupermum · 01/11/2013 18:19

If that were my son I would be livid that he disrupted class. Having a giggling fit is not behaviour that is appropriate and I would be livid with him because he pushed a teaching into issuing a punishment. My son would need to respect his teachers.

With regards to the school, I would not be happy about their management of your concerns about being made to stand in the corner during class.

While others will say 'Oh you don't have teenagers'. I have a 2 year old and when she was hiting other children in her daycare class I removed her. None of the other children should have to put up with that. If she is fresh with our childminder she gets a rotten point. If she is good she gets a star. If she has more than 3 rotten points in a day she doesn't get to go for a walk with the dog in the evening. Her behaviour is much better now we are strict.

LordPalmerston · 01/11/2013 18:19

Op. Stop fighting your kids battles

LordPalmerston · 01/11/2013 18:20

Oh the op has pissed off? There's a thing

nkf · 01/11/2013 18:26

Did you really do all that research?

chchchchchangesusername · 01/11/2013 18:26

Has she gone? Ooooooh shit, do you think she has suffered pathogenic effects and damage of peer humiliation she has received on here? Shock

morethanpotatoprints · 01/11/2013 18:29

Want2b

Yes, but surely to gain respect. you can't just tell a child to respect whoever you feel fit too.
Some teachers have the opinion of "I'm big your small, I'm right, you're wrong and there's nothing you can do about it".
Some teachers are bullies and will never gain respect, irrespective of who tells them they should.

WooWooOwl · 01/11/2013 18:35

I think this is the first time I've felt sorry for an OP that has been given a resounding YABU.

I mean, I know shes being ridiculous, but it does hurt when someone upsets your child and you can see that they are hurting because of the way they've been treated. I know it's not rational, but don't we all have a bit of that mother tiger instinct in us?

Dancergirl · 01/11/2013 18:39

I think the OP has got the message by now!

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 18:39

Thymeout so the detention was the punishment for disrupting the class by 'shouting' the remark.

If standing against the wall wasn't a punishment then why was he singled out from a whole group of giggling boys? They were all giggling.

Sounds like he took the wrap for it all.

If he wasn't being punished by standing against the wall (which I think he was),can you not see how unfair it is for him to be singled out to stop the giggling?

When did schools lose their sense of humour anyhow.

Fuck me,it must be shit to see kids having fun.

This is pissing me off.

So many humourless people.

No one was being hurt.It was light hearted fun and there was a complete over reaction.

Could the teacher not just call time on it and move on ffs.

BurningBridges · 01/11/2013 18:40

Oh dear. I'm the chair of governors for 2 schools. I think that's a pretty crap way to treat a year 7 child. The teacher, and subsequently other staff, over-reacted. Not the OP

In schools that strive for excellence, where teachers are given support to excel at what they do (not just support to dodge parent complaints) year 7 children are given a lot of support, not humiliated. The schools I work with are not interested in making life crap for their youngest students, but getting the best out of them.

In schools that are thinking ho ho parents are all loonies and we can get away with what we like, then they are being supported in that by parents who say "oho yes it never did me any harm" and the like.

I agree the OP was clearly very upset and because of that she may have come across as being too emotionally involved, but I don't blame her. Pippa on this occasion you may find that your son would rather let it lie, in which case please go with what he wants, but if and when you meet the Head on Monday do set out your expectations. He's doing a job, not doing you a personal favour.

BTW Mumsnet - please drop this "all children are lying because it really suits the adult's agenda to say that they are." I've seen it so many times on here, its very sad.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 18:42

Thank goodness Burning.

A voice of reason Grin.

Mitzyme · 01/11/2013 18:44

I know the OP has gone and my experience is not relevant today. However I am interested to know this.
We were belted for any reason. I was punched for freezing when I couldn't answered an arithmetic question.
It was just the way it was. I was humiliated and when I told my mum she did nothing. I know this doesn't happen today ( would you believe we are a family mostly of teachers, even my DD who is amazing )
My question is, what would you rather have an OTT parent ( not saying OP is ) or one who frankly doesn't really care.
Lots of really good advice on here OP hope it helps.

Tabliope · 01/11/2013 18:47

Excellent post BurningBridges. I agree with every word of it.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 18:53

BTW Mumsnet - please drop this "all children are lying because it really suits the adult's agenda to say they are."

Well said,Burning well bloody said.

I for one am fed up of all the accusations of entitled and spoilt children if anyone so much as hints at siding with their DC's, or a child's perspective.

It doesn't make for spoilt children to allow them to trust that we will be their voice when they feel they have none.

BoffinMum · 01/11/2013 18:57

He sounds like he needs to grow up a bit and shut up in class, and the school sounds it has had a sense of humour failure. Probably because teachers are fed up of class disruption.

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 01/11/2013 18:58

It wasn't great what the teacher you did.. But you sound really precious to be perfectly blunt.

which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway)

I mean that alone...

You won't help your son if you let him think he is the victim of horrible teachers just send him to detention and get on with it. If the teacher causes further trouble then deal with it.

nkf · 01/11/2013 19:02

Just read a bit more of that very long OP. Did you really mention the press? All I can say is that I find the facing the wall a bit off. Why not sent outside? But everything else okay. Giggling = disruptive. Drug joke = playing to an audience to continue more disruption.

But, to be honest, I think you are making the story up. I think it's a wind up. You are rattling cages. It's well done though. Better than most. But somehow it feels inauthentic.

Will I get banned now?

kumamon · 01/11/2013 19:18

I can't help think

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 19:21

Me neither kumamon.

But it's diminishing the further I get down my Wine.

kumamon · 01/11/2013 19:23

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kumamon · 01/11/2013 19:23

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Floggingmolly · 01/11/2013 19:25

There's actually nothing to suggest op's ds is the sensitive little soul she imagines him to be. I'm hurting so much for my ds I can't think about anything else, coupled with the fact that her ds deliberately didn't actually tell her about the incident seems to indicate that the problem is all hers. But will become her son's, purely because of the embarrassment factor. He'll never live this down if op doesn't back off now.

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