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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
hackmum · 01/11/2013 17:17

Am not going to get into the whole business of whether the OP is over-reacting, but I can't for the life of me see what is wrong with the child's comment that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. That sounds like a simple observation to me. Year 7s in the schools around here are all about telling the teacher to fuck off and calling each other various unsavoury names, usually racist or sexist, sometimes both, and that's when they're not knocking lumps out of each other, so I can't for the life of me see why the teacher was bothered by this innocuous comment.

Either the DS goes to a very strict school or the teacher is a bit unhinged, in my view.

harticus · 01/11/2013 17:21

It is threads like this that make me even more eager to Home Ed my DS.

What a fiasco.

Teachers dressed with a little brief authority.
Facing the wall? Really?
For making a crap adolescent joke about laughing like they were stoned?
Jesus I thought that kind of punitive bollocks died out with dunce caps.

What a truly shit way to run an education system.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 17:24

And the Education Act 2011 removed the requirement to give 24 hours notice for after school detentions. The OP ' s son could perfectly legally have been kept the same day. noblegiraffe is quite right in saying that no consultation is necessary.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 17:26

I may well have missed something here,in which case please do correct me,but no one has given a reasonable explanation as to why this boy seemed to get two punishments for one (reasonably harmless) 'offence'.

Why did he have to stand against a wall AND get detention Confused.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 17:32

Is that true ilovesooty?

So the law says an 11 year old child can be 'made' to stay after school for a detention on the same day? Shock

What if the parent has an appointment to attend?Or is at work and someone else collects them?Or they get school transport? Confused

IloveJudgeJudy · 01/11/2013 17:36

I have just discussed this with DD (Y12) and DS2 (Y10). Both have said that you really need to get your DS to "man up". If he's really been upset by this, then I don't know how (you and) he's gonna cope with the rest of secondary.

Otoh, I (we) also agree with VerySmall. He has already been punished, so doesn't need a detention as well as the standing facing the wall. I imagine he was facing the wall so that he wouldn't look at his mates and start giggling again. Also, you really do need to take what he says with a pinch of salt, as I doubt what he has told you is the whole story; it's just the story as seen from the pov of two Y7s (him and his mate).

RedHelenB · 01/11/2013 17:37

I don't think the standing against the wall was a punishment, more an immediate response to stop the infectious laughter. The detention was the punishment & rightly so, children are in lessons to learn & not to have them disrupted by playground behaviour.

noblegiraffe · 01/11/2013 17:38

Verysmall the rules are

26.School staff should not issue a detention where they know that doing so would compromise a child's safety. When ensuring that a detention outside school hours is reasonable, staff issuing the detention should consider the following points:

Whether the detention is likely to put the pupil at risk
Whether the pupil has known caring responsibilities which mean that the detention is unreasonable.
Whether the parents ought to be informed of the detention. In many cases it will be necessary to do so, but this will depend on the circumstances. For instance, notice may not be necessary for a short after school detention where the pupil can get home safely.
Whether suitable travel arrangements can be made by the parent for the pupil. It does not matter if making these arrangements is inconvenient for the parent.
27. As with any disciplinary penalty a member of staff must act reasonably given all the circumstances, as described in paragraph 11 of this content, when imposing a detention.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 17:38

The school should take individual circumstances such as transport into consideration but the Act is quite clear. No notice, legally, has to be given. The change in the law specifically removed the 24 hour notice requirement.

Tabliope · 01/11/2013 17:40

Agree with VerySmallSqueak, why two punishments? Also, agree with Hackman - if all he said it's like they were all on drugs what's wrong with that? It's just a statement of fact surely?

OP what I'm interested in knowing is did he shout it out or did he just comment to his friend? Also was he facing the wall or not? I would have grilled my DS by now to get all the facts straight before having approached the school in the first place. The problem is you couldn't have that discussion with the teacher in the first place to ascertain what happened. You've every right to be concerned about your DS. All these tough people saying he needs to man up well he'll grow out of his sensitivity in time. He's just started Yr7. He could be one of the youngest in his year, we don't know. All you wanted was a dialogue with the school and that seems to have been denied to you, prompting you to get shirty with them and them to lay down the law that they're in charge. It really didn't need to get to that. They're supposed to be the professionals in all this. Surely they've dealt with over-protective parents before if that's what they think you are. How they've handled it hasn't been good in my view.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 17:41

X post with noblegiraffe

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 17:43

And it does sound as though the standing facing the wall was to stop the giggling and disruption and the detention was for the inappropriate comment.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 17:44

So,really,in all circumstances the parent would need to be informed to comply with those rules in the case of a year 7 child.

And of course,in this instance the op was, by being given a slip.

The law quoted wasn't really relevant to this particular case.

But still handy to know Smile.

BrickorCleat · 01/11/2013 17:45

On the assumption this is a real thread, can I ask OP, what on earth does your DS make of your overinvolvement?

He's the one who has to go, I didn't get the impression that he actively encouraged your charging about with your files of research like Erin Brokovich and a crack team of reporters on speed dial.

Why not, for his sake, just not make an even bigger berk of yourself and on Monday join a class to learn a language or do some yoga.

Seriously, calm down duckie.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 17:48

It was relevant in that if it had been applied the OP would have had no opportunity to discuss the detention before it took place as her son would have already done it when he got home.

ferretyfeet · 01/11/2013 17:51

If you hadn't got involved he would probably forgotten all about it by now

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 17:53

And the school would not be on very solid ground that they were acting within the law,if the parent decided to take action imo ilove.

moldingsunbeams · 01/11/2013 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

alpinemeadow · 01/11/2013 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 17:54

I would argue that on the basis of age the parents should be informed.

The child may be walking home,but the parent should know they will be late.

noblegiraffe · 01/11/2013 17:58

Is this even an after school detention? Not simply a lunch detention?

KatieScarlett2833 · 01/11/2013 17:59

This happened to me when I was 15. I truly couldn't stop laughing for about 4 hrs. In chemistry. Over someone putting a chemical down the sink instead of being disposed of properly.
Even being sent to the corridor didn't stop me, it was like hysteria, I couldn't stop.
I thoroughly deserved my detention. It has not scarred me for life in the slightest and as for telling my mum Shock
She'd have bollocked me worse than Mr Campbell did Wink

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 17:59

I think we have digressed tbh noble Grin

milkysmum · 01/11/2013 18:01

I wish I had more support for you as I dread my children holding bad memories from childhood BUT you really need to let this go now as you have hugely over reacted. If you carry on like this op your son could well bear the brunt of future bullying because of his embarrassing mother- sorry harsh but true I do think

soverylucky · 01/11/2013 18:02

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