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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
KeemaNaanAndCurryon · 01/11/2013 16:17

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larrygrylls · 01/11/2013 16:18

Noble,

Ok, point taken. I assumed from your first post that you were telling off a sobbing child in front of 29 other children. In private is a different matter.

By the way, from what I read of the OP, her son made a remark about out of control laughter to his mate, he was not laughing at other kids doing a performance. It seems quite a harmless comment to me, I have to say and a slight overreaction from the teacher. Having said that, shit happens, and 11 is a good age to realise it and not whine. If it were one of my children, I would have accepted that they had been unfairly treated but then told them to do the punishment anyway but inwardly know what was fair.

Tabliope · 01/11/2013 16:18

I don't have any problem with detentions being given out. You might think they're heavy handed sometimes but mostly it's not worth pursuing.

However, putting all of that aside, what would have annoyed me most is the teacher doesn't seem to have listened to you. She might be busy but it's still rude to ignore you. Likewise, I'm really surprised the deputy didn't want to meet with you. They might not think it would be productive but I think if a parent has requested a meeting it's a surprise not to be granted one. Why not hear you out? At least face to face some understanding of the situation could have been reached. All that's happened and what they've failed to head off is a situation that's got out of control with a parent threatening the press which I think is terribly bad management. They seem to think they're omnipotent and that you, the parent, have to toe the line, which I wouldn't be happy about. Yes, you might be a complete fruit cake but you should have been granted a meeting. Beyond what's happened to your son I'd be questioning that. A head that's hostile in order to put you in your box and cut you dead? To me, that's not a good head.

What has your son said has happened exactly? Was he actually facing a wall? I don't know what I think about this. My issue would be you've got a concern that you wanted to discuss with them and they haven't allowed it. They could have avoided this with a bit of better handling. All they've done is get a parent's back up.

JammieCodger · 01/11/2013 16:20

I wonder if your son was unwilling to tell you what had happened not because he was so traumatised by the event itself, but because he was dreading your response. I'd have been horrified if I'd thought my mother might ring my headteacher and accuse her of being autocratic and dishonest. Have you done this kind of thing before?

noblegiraffe · 01/11/2013 16:21

I don't bawl kids out, larry! A stern talking to is as bad as it gets.

utreas · 01/11/2013 16:23

YABVU and ridiculously melodramatic

LoreleisSecret · 01/11/2013 16:27

Your child is going to go through school being very entitled. Knowing he's untouchable to discipline from teachers due to mummy dearest swooping in with her cape and research.

Back off OP, you are doing your son more harm than good. He was in the wrong, get a hobby!

Brodicea · 01/11/2013 16:29

I think the teacher has been a bit of a shit and from the sounds of it, very unfair. I have memories of unfair punishments from school that still make me angry!

But, the fact that some people in power are unfair is a life lesson. I think you've taken it too far and are borderline helicopter parenting. You should have spent some time talking to DS about what happened saying, 'hey stuff like this happens all the time, it happened to me at school - teacher sounds like a tool but maybe they were flustered and you were the unlucky one to be made an example of' rather than getting all 'customer services' about it. Sounds like the other kids thought the teacher was an arse too, so they've only undermined themselves by being unfair.

That's my two-penneth.

TiredDog · 01/11/2013 16:36

shellyf Fri 01-Nov-13 15:34:10
IF this is true you could easily be identified.School staff are often members of mumsnet.If this is brought to the attention of the HT he will not be happy about you posting on an internet forum.Our parents are made aware that posting comments about staff online will be taken very seriously.

Mad as a box of frogs.
If this is for real then I guarantee you are the talk of the staffroom. And you should take note of ShellyF's comment above. In the same way that teachers are not allowed to post online about pupils and parents, it is entirely inappropriate for you to do the same about a member of staff. Particularly when you are mid way through a grievance procedure.

Curioushorse Fri 01-Nov-13 14:56:21
Ha ha ha! Hilarious. OP I'm assuming this is a joke

A few things about how schools work ....
I await your email to go viral on the TES message boards.

Interesting...

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 16:38

I also have memories of unfair punishments at school Brodicea.

And my Mum used to call them on it.

For that she still has my complete respect.

I cannot understand where some people on this thread think that a teachers actions are beyond question.

That worries me,and disempowers our children.

JammieCodger · 01/11/2013 16:44

No-one is saying that teachers' actions should be beyond question; we are saying that in this case the parent is overreacting.

Floggingmolly · 01/11/2013 16:47

Op is not teaching her child to stand up for what is right and wrong, smallsqueak.

She has taken umbrage at a punishment her ds didn't even mention to her and is attempting to do the (inappropriate) standing up on his behalf.

larrygrylls · 01/11/2013 16:50

VerySmall,

For a school to be functional, they ought to be supported by the parents unless they cross a line where they have clearly behaved very badly.

Sometimes teachers overreact, they are human. It sounds like this one did. On the other hand, what kind of message does it send if parents are trying to micromanage what goes on at school? Who would be a teacher? Why would any student accept a teacher's word if parents are always going to successfully appeal it?

Although Piaget, Kohlberg et al might believe a school should be a democratic institution with pupils having equal say, IMO that is ridiculously idealistic and, in the real world, you need the institution to be respected which means the head down to the teachers (again, within reason).

ll31 · 01/11/2013 16:50

think jcodger is right and your ds may well have sensibly not told you because of your likely ott reaction. You are doing him no favours.

I'd teacher who made me stand on desk for mmisbehaving, just thought she was mad....didn't damage me..

I feel quite sorry for your ds cos you seem to be putting him in position where he'll be afraid to talk to you.

What does his other parent think??

fromparistoberlin · 01/11/2013 16:50

i used to have a really neurotic flatmate

when her kid turns 11, this is EXACTLY how she will be

fromparistoberlin · 01/11/2013 16:51

and correct me if I am wrong, but has OP come back?????

Ilovegeorgeclooney · 01/11/2013 16:52

Don't doubt teachers and parents both get it wrong. However a child who makes a flippant drugs comment has to be disciplined and my experience of drama lessons is it was more likely to be "don't watch the next performance if you can't be sensible" than "wear a dunce's hat and stand in a corner". Either way he has to learn drugs are not a joking matter.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 16:53

So,why,in this case did the teacher not properly discuss the op's questions when asked? Jammie?

Some people are saying,on this thread, that the Op's Ds should just go to the detention and basically lump it.

To me,that is saying that the teacher should not be questioned.
That if a teacher gives a punishment,even if it's not fair,it's better to comply than question.

I don't understand.

I'm really not trying to put teachers down.I am sure that in the vast vast majority of cases the teachers judgement is correct,the punishment justified,and the child should accept the consequences of their actions.

But teachers are human too and can misjudge and over react,and I think if a parent feels the need to question something,however minor,they should.

But some seem to think it should just be let go.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 16:58

Flogging he is year 7.

I wouldn't expect my child to have the confidence at that age to ask an adult (teacher) the questions and discuss the situation in full at that age.

At that age the parent needs to take that responsibility,and in this way teach the child to stand up for right and wrong when they are able to.

I wouldn't stand the op's DS's chances discussing this with the teacher if the teacher won't discuss it with the parent. Confused

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 16:59

I'm with those who have suggested the OP removes her son and home schools him. This is a ridiculous overreaction and her son will be damaged more by her behaviour than by the original punishment.

RedHelenB · 01/11/2013 17:01

I fail to see how the punishment was unfair given that OP has admitted to his disrupting the lesson! Can just see the OP's reaction if it was her son performing & others giggling!

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 17:05

larry I agree to a point.

I suspect that if a parent communicates with the school over a punishment,they feel that line has been reached.
Who sets the standard as to where that line is?

It's a no brainer that a little communication could only have helped this situation.

If the school feels the line hasn't been crossed,surely they could discuss this with the parent and tell them where they feel the line is?

popperdoodles · 01/11/2013 17:07

Haven't read whole thread but open I can understand why you were upset. Year 7 can be a tough transition for parents too. When ds1 started secondary he struggled and when his class got a few whole class detentions I was upset for him. I called deputy head to find out what was going on as it felt unfair. He was sympathetic but said ds needed to man up. And he was right. Shit happens sometimes. You can't protect them but you can give them the tools to deal with it. Take it on the chin and move on.

neversleepagain · 01/11/2013 17:10

Too many precious parents around.

spidersolitare · 01/11/2013 17:14

board of governs ?

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