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AIBU?

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
harticus · 01/11/2013 23:11

I suspect claig would like to see better discipline in schools enforced by the return of something physical.

A slipper perhaps, a cane, a birch?

That would shut the little oiks up eh claig? Beat the discipline into them.
Give their parents a sound thrashing while you are at it - and then line up all the benefit cheats, the immigrants, the homosexuals....

Come on claig 'fess up - go the whole hog with this out and proud Tory shtick and admit you'd like to see a return to corporal punishment to deal with the "scumbags"

harticus · 01/11/2013 23:12

LMFAO @ bank managers.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 23:12

Here we go......

Bloody hell,claig do you really want to go back to all that?

claig · 01/11/2013 23:12

'Is that particularly progressive or desirable do you think?'

It is not progressive, but it is desirable.

It is the swing too far in a progressive direction with a rights agenda trumping a responsibility and duty agenda that has led to the levels of disrespect where the Mail can report that 1 in 10 heads have been assaulted by a parent.

No, we shouldn't go back to corporal punishment, but we should end the way access to teachers to ask them to justify decisions they make about detentions or other disciplinary measures they may choose to take.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 23:15

I think teachers these days are stuffed if their HTs won't back them up in enforcing sanctions because they back the parents and pupils. Poor managers make discipline very difficult. I for one would not want a return to corporal punishment even if it were possible, which it isn't.

claig · 01/11/2013 23:15

'admit you'd like to see a return to corporal punishment to deal with the "scumbags"'

No I am not in favour of corporal punishment, just stiff jail sentences for "scumbags" who assault teachers.

claig · 01/11/2013 23:17

'LMFAO @ bank managers.'

Can you use more respectful language please? Standards have deteriorated when that sort of language is used in conjunction with bank managers.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 23:17

If every teacher assaulted by a pupil involved the police that would be a wake up call for some parents and pupils. Unfortunately too many are afraid to.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 23:18

But if you go back to the 50's-70's claig there was corporal punishment.

That's how the gained their 'respect'.

harticus · 01/11/2013 23:20

So because a couple of idiots swing a punch at a teacher you have decided to brand all parents as aggressive imbeciles who should play no role whatsoever in the academic life of their children.

And you perceive all teachers as paragons of virtue who never get it wrong.
Unless of course the Daily Mail tells you what shits they are for striking. Do you respect teachers when they strike then claig?

morethanpotatoprints · 01/11/2013 23:20

Claig

How bloody old do you think I am? Victorian? I was talking about when I was at school during the 60s and 70s, it was barbaric and dc feared teachers, maybe parents did respect them on the whole, but they were ill advised to imo.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 23:22

I started teaching in the late 70s when corporal punishment still existed. I don't recall it being very effective. However, most parents upheld school discipline at home. That was how things were different.

claig · 01/11/2013 23:22

'If every teacher assaulted by a pupil involved the police that would be a wake up call for some parents and pupils. Unfortunately too many are afraid to.'

The local authority should be under a legal obligation to protect their employees and they should be under a legal obligation to pursue legal action and jail sentences whould be in the years and the sentence should be given maximum publicity. That would soon put a stop to it.

McAvity · 01/11/2013 23:23

I think you were looking for this OP: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/tell_me_im_right

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 23:25

The pupil I referred to upthread who was readmitted to school was excluded for assaulting the deputy head, who was told by the head that if he reported the matter to the police after the parent complained he would make sure that deputy head never got a headship.

SqueeksAway · 01/11/2013 23:26

Haha I reckon I'm late to the party but I reckon the real issue is you are worried about how he is settling in. If he was feeling confident and secure you wouldn't have bothered making a fuss and contacting the drama teacher/head teacher. He might well have wanted to make that comment to feel part of the class. And probably didnt want to tell you to avoid this precise situation

Pippa the important thing is not teachers getting it wrong but your son

I've got a tutor group of yr7 this year and this sort of things happens to a few of them - does your son have a tutor or pastoral care worker that's who you need the meeting with and should be your main point of contact.

Say you are worried about school refusing and that's why you were so anxious about the detention. You basically need to know he is ok in class and safe at break and lunch times that he has somewhere to go and his school anxiety is being addressed so it doesn't get out of hand. You also need to make clear that you support the schools discipline policy to your son

If your son is upset about getting the detention I explain (to the kids I unfairly humiliate) that wrt an incident where people aren't learning I will ask people to stop then if someone tries to bring it up again they get both barrels even if their intention was not malicious - it might not be fair but that's life

On the bright side I'd work at that school a head that supports a teacher woweee - in some places you'd have got ur wish n the drama teacher would have been the one in the stocks

Good luck on Monday!

claig · 01/11/2013 23:26

"But if you go back to the 50's-70's claig there was corporal punishment.

That's how the gained their 'respect'."

No, that is wrong. Parents respected teachers more in those days, because society respected teachers more in those days. Parents didn't fear and respect teachers because teachers dished out corporal punishment to parents.

Parents respected teachers because society did, and disrespect of teachers such as assault would gain higher sentences than the months people get now.

The respect that parents had for teachers was then transmitted to their children.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 23:30

On the bright side I'd work at that school a head that supports a teacher woweee - in some places you'd have got ur wish n the drama teacher would have been the one in the stocks

Precisely. There are certainly schools where the teachers are totally unsupported by management. In those schools the pupils know that this is the case, and discipline suffers accordingly. They know that one complaint at home will have their parents rushing up to undermine the school.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 23:31

I was at school in the 70's claig and my parents didn't have this mythical respect for bank managers,teachers and police.

Perhaps they were outlaws living on the edge of society Shock

claig · 01/11/2013 23:32

"So because a couple of idiots swing a punch at a teacher you have decided to brand all parents as aggressive imbeciles who should play no role whatsoever in the academic life of their children."

I haven't branded all parents in that manner. I think all parents should "play a role in the academic life of their children" by helping with homework etc, but I don't think they should question a teacher who decides to give a detention or make someone stand facing a wall. I believe in letting teachers teach and control a classroom and parents helping with education at home.

'And you perceive all teachers as paragons of virtue who never get it wrong.'
Not all, but most.

'Do you respect teachers when they strike then claig?'

I certainly do, as I respect anyone who fights for their terms and conditions.

I respect teachers who strike and I don't respect parents who strike teachers.

claig · 01/11/2013 23:33

"How bloody old do you think I am? Victorian?"

OK, you're not as old as me, and don't remember those days.

claig · 01/11/2013 23:35

"The pupil I referred to upthread who was readmitted to school was excluded for assaulting the deputy head, who was told by the head that if he reported the matter to the police after the parent complained he would make sure that deputy head never got a headship."

That is pathetic. Something has gone wrong when wrongs are covered up to possibly protect the reputation of heads or schools and not protect the teachers in those schools.

claig · 01/11/2013 23:37

'I was at school in the 70's claig and my parents didn't have this mythical respect for bank managers,teachers and police.

Perhaps they were outlaws living on the edge of society'

My parents did and everyone in our street did. When I got into trouble at school, my parents had a go at me, not at the teachers. But they were the good old days, with the good old ways.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 23:39

This is getting silly now.

You can live in your bygone bubble claig.

I'm going to listen to the radiogram

claig · 01/11/2013 23:43

'I'm going to listen to the radiogram'

I think Hancock's Half Hour is on. I'm tuning in too.
'

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