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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think that using peer humiliation as a punishment for a quiet, sensitive child at the start of Year 7 is very bad practice by the school?

461 replies

pippalonglegs · 01/11/2013 13:21

Oh, I need help and advice please. I'm hurting so much for my DS that I can't think about anything else. Please bear with me - it's a story.

Basically, in a drama class the children were split into boys v girls. The boys started giggling and got themselves into a position in which they became helplessly unable to stop laughing. DS commented to his buddy that it was 'as if they were all on drugs'. Teacher (probably stressed) overheard, took exception to the comment and issued a detention. DS came home seeming so sad and withdrawn and was very upset. He told me about the detention and subsequently I emailed the school (Monday), taking great care not to take sides, simply in order to understand what had happened from teacher's point of view. On Tuesday she called me, and left a voicemail in which she said that DS had 'shouted out a completely inappropriate comment'.

I had no contact telephone number so emailed again (Tues) and explained that even prior to this, DS had been struggling with high school transition and was feeling sad to the point of really not wanting to go to school, and might perhaps benefit more from an alternative approach. I asked if we might talk about the detention before it went ahead. She didn't reply on the Tuesday, the Wednesday or the Thursday - in other words, she completely ignored/dismissed my concerns - and instead simply sent him home with a detention slip for the Friday. Of course I was furious, not least because my sensible and genuine concerns had been completely ignored, and I felt I'd been treated as a stupid, interfering parent.

But then the full picture emerged. I happened to be speaking to another parent who told me she had been very shocked to hear what had happened to DS, although initially I didn't fully understand what she meant. Her child gave an account (unprompted by me, I should add) that was identical to DS's. She said that nobody had even heard his comment (which in my opinion merely illustrated a mature understanding of the potential impact of drugs anyway) and that it was only the teacher flying off the handle that caused any interest in it. But - and this is the significant bit - it also transpired from this third party account that DS had been made to stand facing the wall until the end of lesson, and was at that point given the detention. And that was the bit that crushed me. DS is the most gentle, kind and sensitive of boys, has never been in trouble before, and there could have been no need to subject him to that kind of humiliation in front of his peers. Detentions and discipline, yes - but peer humiliation, most definitely no!!!

Suddenly it all made sense. No wonder he had come home from school so upset. And the thing that really distressed me was that he had felt so much shame and humiliation that he hadn't even been able to tell me about it. My heart broke for him. Little wonder that he was unwilling to go back into school to face his peers. Personally, I felt that such a punishment merely lacked a cap with a big 'D' on the front - a punishment more suited to 1913 than 2013.

I set about researching the pathogenic effects and the damage of peer humiliation (which has a profound impact on cognitive development and behaviour in children). Armed with the evidence, I emailed the head teacher with a formal grievance (the substantive points of which were 1. the failure of the teacher to engage with me and 2. the humiliation punishment that was used). That was acknowledged by the head, who said he would appoint his deputy (also the head of pastoral care) to investiagte, and would then meet with me to discuss the matter.

The deputy called me yesterday and Oh. My. God!!!! It has been a long, long time since I've spoken to anybody who was so bloody-minded and unintelligent. In spite of promises by the head, he refused to have a meeting with me, although I asked repeatedly if we could sit down to talk about my complaint. Every time I asked, his parrotted reply was that he 'would not normally meet with a parent to discuss a detention'. It didn't matter how many times I repeated that the detention was the least of my concerns, he wouldn't listen. In the end I even said that I felt like Jeremy Paxman and I said I wanted a straight answer to a straight question - but his reply was the same again!!!

In the end, I said I would redial and speak to the head, which I duly did. Of course, in the intervening minutes, the deputy had skidded down the corridor to forewarn the head and the head was, initially at least, every bit as hostile. We spoke for about ten minutes, most of which was decidedly heated, and I have to say, most (though by no means all) of the anger came from him not me! Clearly, he was unused to being challenged by a parent and he didn't like it at all. I felt his attitude was autocratic, verging on imperialistic - and told him so!! He actually told me that DS wasn't made to stand facing the wall, he was made to stand at the edge of the room, looking away from the class group!! Oh dear. Talk about semantics!!! Paradoxically, his refusal to accept that DS had been made to stand facing the wall seems clearly to indicate that he knew how unacceptable that would have been. I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Basically, it would help me to know if anybody else has had a similar experience. I have the meeting next Monday and would really like to know what options I have/don't have. DS is really suffering and has lost a lot of confidence and self-esteem since this incident. I think it's something that he will carry around with him for the rest of his life.

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 01/11/2013 20:41

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claig · 01/11/2013 20:42

After the OP mentioned how this might not go down well with the press, the head's ranting abruptly abated and he invited her in for a biscuit and a cup of tea. Grin

"I said that kind of ducking and diving, that kind of manipulation was fundamentally dishonest and slippery and wouldn't play out at all well in the press.

At about that point, we had a u-turn and he invited me in to see him on Monday for a cup of tea and a biscuit."

gloucestergirl · 01/11/2013 20:45

I am teaching at a school at the moment (planning on leaving) because the management engage too much with every little sodding whinge from kids and their parents. Too much interference from parents like this create a white noise meaning that proper valid issues become lost.

Has anyone thought of the teacher in this? Are they experienced and up to their eyeballs in work? Are they an NQT making mistakes and trying to get through each day? The support of management and parents for the teachers is vital. A demoralised teacher who has parents and management nit-picking will NOT be an effective teacher.

Why is everyone assuming that the teacher was in the wrong. The OP's source of information is from a parent from their kid. Kids are mostly dreadful at reporting exactly what happened. And parents will also distort what happened. Noone has any way of knowing what happened apart from maybe the head or deputy head, probably because they spoke to the teacher and trust/support that teacher.

claig · 01/11/2013 20:45

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Floggingmolly · 01/11/2013 20:46

Why don't you just report, claig? What you're doing is very blatant troll hunting Hmm

Mitzyme · 01/11/2013 20:48

God it's so bloody obvious.
Touch a nerve with someone ( me ) and they are hooked.
Won't happen again ( probably will )

claig · 01/11/2013 20:49

Why should I report? I think it is a great thread and is very funny. It made me laugh and I thank the OP for that. I cracked up laughing just like the kids in the class.

I don't believe in 'peer humiliation' or 'OP humiliation'. I'm for tea and biscuits.

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 01/11/2013 20:50

Pathogenic effects Um. Sorry if it's been said already, but a pathogen is like germs or fungus or whatever. Was it a particularly dirty wall, OP?

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 20:52

I think that just because the op has spoken in flowery and emotional language (and has subsequently disappeared...) it doesn't make this a made up thread.

At least,I hope not, because I have invested myself emotionally,battled on the op's side,and used some uncharacteristically long words.....

claig · 01/11/2013 20:59

It doesn't really matter whether it is made up or not, because the abstract argument is still relevant.

Should teachers be allowed to determine punishments as they see fit in cases such as these or should parents be able to intervene and put pressure on teachers?

The way that the OP has stated it is much more interesting.

claig · 01/11/2013 21:05

gloucestergirl has it spot on when she says

"I am teaching at a school at the moment (planning on leaving) because the management engage too much with every little sodding whinge from kids and their parents."

That is the tragic outcome of this "yuman rights" type philosophy that has gone too far and where teachers have to justify everything they decide to do when trying to control a classroom.

This is the fundamental difference between right and left wing philosophies about teacher-led or child-led learning and rights. The Daily Mail would back the teachers every time. I think some left wing papers would instead back the child and thereby lead to the undermining of the teaching profession over time to the extent that some good teachers may say enough is enough and decide to leave.

Mitzyme · 01/11/2013 21:07

Good point Claig. My irritation is fleeting and I am now more interested in my reaction to something that happened to me decades ago.
How shallow is that Ha.

bettterandnow · 01/11/2013 21:09

YANBU

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2013 21:10

claig I'm slightly left of Marx and I don't agree with undermining teachers for no good reason. I believe in strong boundaries and rules and high expectations. Sanctions for unacceptable behaviour is fine by me. That does not conflict with human rights in my view.

I have worked in some very scary places and find that good boundaries (for staff and clients) and high expectations lead to a better, more inclusive and effective social care model.

Don't tar all lefties with your namby-pamby brush.

Salmotrutta · 01/11/2013 21:13

Genius.

Utter genius.

It's like Education Bingo.

I've had a mum-parents like you OP. Her DS was very sensitive too - his sensitivity was such a trial to him

bababababoom · 01/11/2013 21:14

YANBU. I had tears in my eyes as I read the op. I would honestly, if that were my child, deregister them from the school and Home Educate - or if that's not an option you'd consider, find another school. Do you really want dickheads like that having control of your child's life and education, and being able to trump your decisions as a parent as to what is best for your son?

Salmotrutta · 01/11/2013 21:15

Oops - posted too soon.

His sensitivity was such a trial to him - it stopped him doing his homework, caused him to use inappropriate language and tell teachers to shut up. Dreadful. I felt so sorry for the poor lad Hmm

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 21:18

If you want to discuss whether teachers should have the right to determine punishment with the parents having no voice, claig then I think it is quite obvious that I wouldn't believe in that.

Just as the teachers do not wish to be undermined,I do not wish to be undermined as a parent.

By and large I support the school and the sanctions etc etc,but I still reserve the right to disagree and disallow a particular course of action against my child.

I have taught children,and I am quite happy with being accountable to the parents.I don't see it as a biggie.

Salmotrutta · 01/11/2013 21:18

bababoom - did you actually have tears in your eyes?

Because someone else's 11year old got a detention and had to stand with his back to the class?

How do you react to really bad stuff?

Strumpetron · 01/11/2013 21:18
Grin
candycoatedwaterdrops · 01/11/2013 21:19

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MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2013 21:22

I work with people who went through the residential school system in Canada. They were forced to watch each other be beaten, their hair was cut off, they were stripped of their language, customs and culture. They were abused in every way you could think of. That brings tears to my eyes. Not a cheeky boy who said something inappropriate and was punished for it. I'm at a loss as to why facing the wall is so terrible. Or detention.

Salmotrutta · 01/11/2013 21:27

I got made to face the wall for hours in primary. I was chatting and wouldn't shut up.

I just kept turning round and pulling faces behind the teachers back.

I was a delightful child.

ilovesooty · 01/11/2013 21:28

YANBU. I had tears in my eyes as I read the op. I would honestly, if that were my child, deregister them from the school and Home Educate - or if that's not an option you'd consider, find another school. Do you really want dickheads like that having control of your child's life and education, and being able to trump your decisions as a parent as to what is best for your son?

Oh dear. Sadly, I think that might even be serious.

VerySmallSqueak · 01/11/2013 21:29

I thought the punishments were disproportionate to the 'crime' MrsTerryPratchett.
Also that he was made an example of when others were engaging in the same behaviour.
And that the parent (the op) was not afforded the opportunity to discuss the situation with the school to vice her concerns.

It wasn't about being getting a detention,or standing facing the wall imo.

I'd have no problem with either of these things if justified.

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