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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if you see an older child (7) having what appears to be a full scale temper tantrum

178 replies

Sparklysilversequins · 01/11/2013 00:33

Screaming and hitting her mother in the supermarket it would be common sense to assume that child may have SN and not stop and stare, shake your head or mutter?

No aggression here, but is that what you would assume?

Big meltdown in Tesco with dd today. She has autism. It's Halloween, too many sweets, excited, change of routine as not in school this week, so many contributory factors.

I HAD to get our shopping, we'd run out of everything, it had to be done so I couldn't leave. She got quite distressed, very quickly. I managed to calm her in the end by letting her walk round glued to me with her head inside my coat, all good.

But the looks! The head shakes, people openly staring at us as we walked up the aisle, not even pretending to look elsewhere. In the end I must have said "she has autism, no need to stare" about 10 times!

If you see this, please assume that's what's going on and not stare at us. It's so hard to deal with anyway. Thanks Smile.

OP posts:
oscarwilde · 01/11/2013 12:20

Thanks for that Kinky - I was going to ask the same question.

I'd assume SN after hours on Mumsnet but I'd be dithering wondering if there was anything I could do to help [run off with your list and fill the trolley for example] or if a stranger approaching to even ask if there was anything they could do to help would make things worse.

JoinYourPlayfellows · 01/11/2013 12:27

"joinyourfellows you could try that if you don't mind my child screaming "get out of my face!" to you."

:o

I don't mind that at all. Let's face it, I'd basically be asking for it.

Other than I would be worried I had made the child more distressed than she was before and that I had made the mother's life harder.

SaucyJack · 01/11/2013 12:29

SaucyJack I'm sorry but you are so wrong. A tantrum is a fraction of a meltdown

But I disagree in the first place that NT children are only ever having "just" a tantrum in the first place. NT children are all individuals with complex emotions and life experiences too.

In fact, having thought about it, I disagree with the tone of this entire thread full stop. It isn't helpful or kind to stare at any child who is distressed, or label them a "spoilt brat" or negatively judge their parents capabilities- regardless of whether the child has statemented SN or not.

stillenacht · 01/11/2013 12:39

Yes but NT children can be coaxed/reasoned with. Impossible with my DS. His meltdowns are often due to external stimuli not necessarily material or other wants/needs. His receptive level of understanding is around 2 but not in a NT way. Having spent a lot of time with my DN (3) this week who had a fair few tantrums, they were so much easier (as were my NT DS1's tantrums) to deal with. Of course I can only speak from my experience.

I don't like the term brat though.

MooseyFate · 01/11/2013 12:40

My DD has autism. When she had meltdowns in public going on 13 I don't think there could have been a shadow of a doubt that she has SN. When she was younger, yes, I got the looks, stares, head-shaking. A lot of people are judgmental and ignorant. Ignore them.

When I see a younger child having a tantrum, I feel nothing but sympathy.

JoinYourPlayfellows · 01/11/2013 12:44

"It isn't helpful or kind to stare at any child who is distressed, or label them a "spoilt brat" or negatively judge their parents capabilities- regardless of whether the child has statemented SN or not."

Yes, I very much agree with this.

ithaka · 01/11/2013 12:52

Yes but NT children can be coaxed/reasoned with. Oh if only that were true. Sadly, the very definition of a tantrum is that the child is not being reasonable.

I agree with the poster who said pre children she would see any child of any age having a tantrum & think 'spoilt brat'.

Post having children, if I see any child of any age having a tantrum I think 'poor mum, obviously having a bad day'.

Sadly it seems not all posters are as empathetic and only certain children are allowed to have tantrums without being labelled as brats.

kinkyfuckery · 01/11/2013 12:52

"It isn't helpful or kind to stare at any child who is distressed, or label them a "spoilt brat" or negatively judge their parents capabilities- regardless of whether the child has statemented SN or not."

You are right.

For those who felt I was also being judgemental, I could have worded my post better. The 'spoilt brat' comes from what people have said to, about or in front of my child in that situation. Sorry if I caused offence.

stillenacht · 01/11/2013 12:59

Ithaka Its about the ability of the child to be able to be reasoned with. Of course 2/3/4 year old NT children have tantrums and thats par for the course. Everyone would understand that. 10 years of prolonged staring (emphasise prolonged) makes me a bit touchy on this subject.

stillenacht · 01/11/2013 13:01

Oh and if you want, my asd boy can be a 'brat' as well when he has a tantrum, not however when he has a meltdown. Two completely different things.

SilverApples · 01/11/2013 13:20

So true stillenacht!
Being on the spectrum doesn't then exclude you from being an irritating PITA as well, and having tantrums, or being rude.
In fact one of the interesting puzzles is picking through which behaviour is the Aspie and which is the bolshie teenager. Grin

ReindeerBollocks · 01/11/2013 13:26

SilverApples you're young man sounds lovely! You must be very proud. I hope the mother was ok in the end.

I wouldn't assume SN, I admit. If I saw a child screaming I would just assume that they were upset and unable to communicate why. This can happen for a myriad of reasons and for all children. Equally I wouldn't judge - I'm sure most mothers have been there.

wellfuckit · 01/11/2013 13:27

World is full of judgemental types - feel sorry for them in their small, intolerant worlds and coast on by. I know someone who had an old man come up to her and tell her he hated babies because they were noisy - she was holding her baby at the time, who happened to be fast asleep Shock

kinkyfuckery · 01/11/2013 13:28

Oh yes stillenacht - my DCs can both be right little shites, SEN aside!

hardboiledpossum · 01/11/2013 13:52

I agree with saucy, nt children are also capable of having meltdowns. my friends parents regularly resorted to locking her in the garden because otherwise she would destroy everything in sight. she wasn't naughty she was just unable to cope with her emotions.

Catinthebed · 01/11/2013 13:56

OP i feel for you its exactly for this reason I tesco.com absolutely everything.

MadeOfStarDust · 01/11/2013 14:36

I would not assume the child had SN - having experienced my own 2 have meltdowns due to tiredness/hormones/anything really....

but I would probably have stared - in a "rabbit caught in the headlights" kind of way - due to my own mental anxiety issues..... not every adult is NT either....

Original poster
Sparklysilversequins · 01/11/2013 16:24

There's been some great answers on here. I really like how so many people have said that only since they've been on MN would they consider SN. Just shows what a great resource MN can be for educating about SN.

OP posts:
Beastofburden · 01/11/2013 16:31

I am not sure how much this helps, but as DS2 is now 17 and nearly six foot, nobody is in any doubt when we are out together that he is not NT. Apart from anything else, most 17 year old boys won't hold their mother's hand any longer Grin. But even now, he looks NT from a distance, until he moves or tries to speak.

I am sorry to report that you still get stared at, though, and that's without a tantrum. The fact is, it's unusual and interesting to people. Sometimes they forget I can see them back, IYSWIM.

0utnumbered · 01/11/2013 17:40

The only time I would judge was if the parent didn't seem to be doing ANYTHING to calm the child down or started screaming or swearing at the child. I do have to ignore my eldest sometimes when he kicks off but he is two not seven. There is a lot more awareness of autism and similiar conditions circulated now so people should be more understanding, I would never dream of staring or making nasty comments no matter what though!

midlandslurker · 01/11/2013 17:43

Sorry I'm a starer.

If I hear a "commotion" in a public place, I feel its my public duty to try and asses the situation and do something to help if necessary.

Maybe the child was being attached by a parent or stranger and I needed to to something........................

Think of all the people who looked quickly away as crying James Bulger was led away.............

I have very good friend that was attacked in public by her ex DP - but again people looked quickly away not realising that she needed real help as he was breaking her fingers.......................

There have been countless situations where terrible things have happened in public,in broad daylight and its only afterwards that people have come forward and said "well I heard /saw something, but didn't realise how serious it was"

I cannot imagine how bloody annoying it must appear to parents of SN children who experience this day in day out,but as someone up thread said its not the norm to see/hear a complete meltdown whilst doing the weekly shop and people will look ,but please remember they may be having a good old stare for all the right reasons.

Original poster
Sparklysilversequins · 01/11/2013 17:44

The thing is quite often I have to be totally passive with my dd when she's like this. If I told her off or spoke to her it would be far far worse because its adding input and communication into an already overloaded and backed up system. So it may look like I was doing nothing but nothing is exactly what's needed at that time.

OP posts:
stillenacht · 01/11/2013 17:50

Midlands a stare is fine. A prolonged stare (say more than 10 secs) is not. Well thats how I feel about it Smile

stillenacht · 01/11/2013 17:51

Sparkly same with DS as any heightened pitch or volume in my voice increases his anxiety.

stillenacht · 01/11/2013 17:52

Scrub out prolonged stare....gawping is what we getWinkShock