To think that if you see an older child (7) having what appears to be a full scale temper tantrum

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Screaming and hitting her mother in the supermarket it would be common sense to assume that child may have SN and not stop and stare, shake your head or mutter?

No aggression here, but is that what you would assume?

Big meltdown in Tesco with dd today. She has autism. It's Halloween, too many sweets, excited, change of routine as not in school this week, so many contributory factors.

I HAD to get our shopping, we'd run out of everything, it had to be done so I couldn't leave. She got quite distressed, very quickly. I managed to calm her in the end by letting her walk round glued to me with her head inside my coat, all good.

But the looks! The head shakes, people openly staring at us as we walked up the aisle, not even pretending to look elsewhere. In the end I must have said "she has autism, no need to stare" about 10 times!

If you see this, please assume that's what's going on and not stare at us. It's so hard to deal with anyway. Thanks .

I remember once in tescos ds1 and 2 were both having a lying on the ground tantrum over going on one of the ride ons. Quite tricky to remove them as I had a full trolley and they were both incoherent with anger. I got quite a few looks and tuts as I tried to difuse the situation, until one lady came up to me and said 'don't you worry about them, some people have very short memories'

Thank you lovely lady. What is the best thing to do when you see tantruming children in the supermarket though? I am never completely sure.

Its a bit more obvious with my DS as he is a big 10 year old. When he was 7 he used to strop out cos he wanted to go to the self service tills (he LOVES them( and he would lay spreadeagled on the floor screaming as I couldn't get even a little bit of shopping done.

People would literally WALK OVER him tutting. Wankers.

YADNBU

I think it's natural for people to look when something unusual is happening. A sudden noise or a scream is growing to attract attention. Most people would just look away, I would think, after seeing what was happening.

It isn't rude to look but it's very rude to stare or tut.

I would definitely think there was SN and feel sympathy. I don't really stare when children have tantrums as its not helpful.

Maybe do an online shop when things are so hectic and stressful.

I get deliveries now only take DS2 so he can go on self service tills. Asda know him very well for this and the staff in Asda have been great to accommodate him. Just need to buy one for Christmas to make him really happy!

Thank you op. My dc is ill and there are times when some aspects of normal life is very challenging for her. We try to minimise the chances of public meltdowns, we don't need that stress in our lives, but sometimes it is unavoidable. So far people around us have been wonderful and we have been studiously ignored (or dealt with patiently) when having a hard time. (She is 15, been openly ill for about a year).

If I hear a scream I tend to look in that direction you can't help it!

After that though I just get on with my own business.

Don't know what people think they're going to acheive standing around being a slack jawed gawker, other than being rude!

People live in perfect worlds and are thick OP. My son is now in his teens, non-verbal - but because he looks 'normal' we still get some idiots out in force when he starts. You would think it was bloody obvious. I have learned to not give a damn about that group though & be grateful about the lovely people who emerge once they see him. (Eg lady on the tills in Tesco yesterday who went all gooey eyed and almost ended up weeping when ds1 was being a sweetie with me & his brothers).

We just ignore the lemon sucking trouts or people who swear at him. There are enough nice people in the world to not feel the need to engage with those who aren't.

If you want a response though - my friend who has a young adult with autism has a great PA response. She says in a loud voice 'now come on X, please try and stop being so autistic you're scaring that lady'

I do agree that looking is normal, but staring is not. Nor is screaming at a child or swearing at them. I don't mind looking, clicking the situation then looking away, I do mind the rest (and I have told people not to stare & have screamed back at them before).

I have to admit I would have been quite judgemental before dd (although would have done my best to keep my feelings to myself). Being at the wrong end of a few toddler Tesco tantrums, I have to admit these things are often out of our control.

Thats a great response JimJams I do something similar.

I am slowly getting used to ignoring comments. It's taken 10 years though!

I am always sympathetic when I see children having a tantrum when with parents in a public place, I wouldn't assume they were SN but imagine that they were having trouble managing them their emotions just then.

Reminds me of my experience when my 2 year old daughter freaked out in Tescos and I had 1 year old brother in a backpack. I left her to lie and flail in the isle knowing she would soon get bored. A lovely member of staff came along and started chatting to her. She soon forgot tantrum and calmed down so we could carry on shopping.

There is a huuuuuuuuge difference between a toddler tantrum (DS1 used to have them) and an autistic meltdown though when you have literally noway of knowing what it's about or how to diffuse it.

Our DN is autistic and once went into full meltdown in a tiny Londis store when we were all on holiday.

People were looking a bit and I said in a dry, sarcastic tone, "Come on, DN, pull yourself together." Instant silence.

Then we all (including DN) burst into hysterical laughter. Even more people stared.

It only worked once, though.

My 13 year old has asd and if he goes into crisis in public I have to protect him and everyone else from him too. Sometimes he just stamps his feet and screams then sits down ranting about anything for ages (happened last week on a busy holiday park, he sat talking to himself about 15m from me and I knew people were staring at him and judging me especially when he started saying he hated me and I should just kill him!) but if he is aggressive and a danger I have no option but to literally pin him down. Deep pressure helps him calm down but the initial rugby tackle always attracts attention and then I get the comments because I'm a 18+ stone woman literally sitting in a 13 year old boy!!!!!!!! I have been approached by security guards and have been judged very openly when in these circumstances. So much so that I avoid going out with dsm alone now.

These are the sort of things the National Autistic Society should be doing to help us. Highlight these sides of autism.

I once phoned them in tears when DS2 was about 6 asking for help. None given, in fact woman on phone was very dismissive. They still phone me asking for money though,"Dear Mrs Stillenacht do you know that Halloween/Christmas is a very difficult time for families living with autism and your contribution could help....". Yes, I bloody do know that!

Some people are twats aren't they?

DS2 used to have full on cannot-be-reached meltdowns. He couldn't stop them and he couldn't help it but thankfully he has mostly grown out of them now he is nearly 13. After the event he could recognise what had happened and apologise.

You would have got a sympathetic smile from me and I would have wondered about SNs. As DS2 is NT, I wouldn't have assumed there were SNs though.

Yes I would assume that. MN and OPs like this, are partly responsible for reminding me to always think of it as a possibility.

Wouldn't assume SN as I have known NT children to have them at that age and even later.

But would certainly not stare and tut.

I tend to feel quietly sympathetic when I see these situations and agree YANBU to expect people not to stare or tut. However I think YABU to expect people to try and make an amateur diagnosis based on a quick observation of a child they don't know, particularly if they have no knowledge or experience of SN!

I'd have been looking in sympathy too. Ds2 had an unreachable meltdown a couple of days ago because he squashed his Cadbury mini roll as he was opening it. It took 40 minutes to stop the rage. Glad we weren't in public.

"...I must have said "she has autism, no need to stare" about 10 times!..."

As I have no experience of SN I would not assume that a child in melt-down had ASD; I would just think it was having a tantrum. So, although I can imagine it's annoying to feel you have to, I think you did the right thing by explaining that your DD has ASD; you're helping to educate people about SN that way.

In those situations I usually quietly ask the parent 'are you okay' as it gives them the chance to either ask for help (look after their other child, their shopping), or the chance to say (loudly) to all the rubberneckers that their child has SN.

Btw my mum's response if someone starts is to say 'well aren't you lucky? You've had such a perfect life you don't need to know about these things'

Agree the NAS is bloody useless - gave up on them years ago. Mencap is much better.