To think that if you see an older child (7) having what appears to be a full scale temper tantrum

[Sparklysilversequins]

Screaming and hitting her mother in the supermarket it would be common sense to assume that child may have SN and not stop and stare, shake your head or mutter?

No aggression here, but is that what you would assume?

Big meltdown in Tesco with dd today. She has autism. It's Halloween, too many sweets, excited, change of routine as not in school this week, so many contributory factors.

I HAD to get our shopping, we'd run out of everything, it had to be done so I couldn't leave. She got quite distressed, very quickly. I managed to calm her in the end by letting her walk round glued to me with her head inside my coat, all good.

But the looks! The head shakes, people openly staring at us as we walked up the aisle, not even pretending to look elsewhere. In the end I must have said "she has autism, no need to stare" about 10 times!

If you see this, please assume that's what's going on and not stare at us. It's so hard to deal with anyway. Thanks .

I would assume SN - but only since being on here.

I would be nothing but symathetic towards he poor parent and child and if appropriate I would smile, offer to help, distract, chat...and yes I would wonder about SN, though I have no SN kids myself.

Mumsnet has made me much more aware and tolerant of these situations.

Hope you are ok OP x

I do genuinely sympathise. My own son is on the spectrum and had his own moments during Trick or Treating last night ( not great). But I look back to my life before children and remember how little I knew about children with ADHD, ADD, autism, etc. I'd then have thought as those head shakers thought last night - although without shaking my head.
A friend of mine with a child who has ADHD has had 'awareness cards ' made up with Vista Print, explaining in brief where her DC's temper tantrum stems from and asking them to be understanding vs judgey.
I haven't done this myself but it's a good idea if you're genuinely bothered, embarrassed and want to educate head-shakers.

What a relief to read this thread! I have 4dds 6, 5, 3, and 1. Dd2 prob has asd and we are beginning the process of diagnosis. I think I can say that a 6 year old can still melt down but be easily 'dealt' with. An asd child, you just can't 'deal' with. I don't know dd2 triggers, but I live in fear of a melt down. Dd3 still toddler meltdowns but I can usually bribe her or sometimes I just have to let her cry. Dd4 has just started the toddler meltdown phase. God help me!

Sorry it was so stressful for you both. All of us with DC in the spectrum go through this. Some days my skin is thicker than others. My usual phrase is 'if you star hard enough, you might cure his autism' that usually shames folks into ceasing the rubber necking.

I remember spending a two hour delay at Barcelona airport with DS2 and me walking round and round, him shouting, "I want a worm!". I couldnt decide whether it was just as well that most people there didn't speak English... But I rely on home delivery for my shopping, I couldn't possibly get round a supermarket.

•stare

Oh yes, we love supermarket deliveries!

I still insists he comes shopping for oddments though, so he can practice. He definitely copes better with the layout and lighting in Waitrose.

I'd be thinking,
A) Does anyone need help I an offer?
B) Thank goodness it's not my kid.

I think I would consider SN but only because as a childcare professional I have knowledge of it. I am not sure anyone in the older generation of my family would.

I hate being stared at but tbh when someone makes a loud screaming noise etc human instinct is to look. My sister has a very short fuse (she is 30 and has always had ASD / BPD symptoms etc but refuses help - lack of oxygen to the brain at birth contributed, all quite complicated) walked round stuck to my mums leg shouting 'I hate you, stop looking at me' and people looked but she was shouting! Of course they were going to look. Blatant staring is different but a glance is instinctive.

for Sparkly after a stressful supermarket experience. A brief glance is a natural reaction is you hear a loud noise but staring and tutting and commenting is beyond horrible and I'm sorry you were subjected to that. Some people are judgemental arseholes

I would be nervous to automatically assume that a child does have SN but I would think it might be quite likely given my experience of working with children with SN. I would never judge - not even if it wasn't an autistic meltdown but a stroppy 7 year old getting cross - you cannot glean anything from a tiny snapshot into someone's life.

and [coffee] for you too!

Just to add, I'd be worried to offer help in case the parent thought I was being nosy and interfering or in case I compounded the situation. I wouldn't hesitate to offer if there was something obvious to do e.g. a mum had dropped her handbag but I'd not want to add any stress to the situation unnecessarily.

I am sorry, I wouldn't assume a 7 year old having a tantrum had SN, I would assume she was a right little madam.

I say this on the basis of my youngest child, who is a drama queen of the highest order and I suspect at 7 may still have been capable of making a public show. She is a bit better now she is 11 (well, in public, anyway). No SN needs though, just spoilt madamness (what can I say, she is the youngest, we had her after we lost a child, she is adored by the whole family).

I wouldn't tut and judge you though, I would pity and empathise and see you as a fellow 'right little madam's mother.

I'd assume that if I were in your position (who hasn't had a child melt down in a supermarket?) I really wouldn't appreciate someone gawping at me, and minded my own business. I hate tutters.

It probably wouldn't occur to me that she had SN, but equally that wouldn't give me the impression that you were a bad parent, or anyone worthy of rude staring. People who do think it's acceptable need some bloody manners.

I wouldn't assume but when I have seen people in situations similar to yours I have sometimes given them a pat on the arm and said something like "poor you, you must be having a tough time" and generally the lady concerned has been nice in return and said yes, it's tough and thanks. I always feel so sad for the mother.

OTH if some little git is scooting around Sainsburys or on their bike then I tut and eye roll - totally different parents imo.

I can see the difference in ds (3.4) between a tantrum and when he is having sensory overload, in pain or scared (he is not autistic). He started screaming in the park the other day because he had a berry squashed on his hand, he was terrified, he was screaming so loudly that people the other side of the park were looking, I had to carry him home as I couldn't even manage to get him in his buggy. My dds were saying ' everyone's staring and I explained that they were probably just worried that ds was hurt, because they hate people looking.

Things like that are unavoidable, and I know that no-one was tutting or eyerolling, but it was still horrible.

Unlike the woman in WHSmiths who commented to the woman next to her, 'that boy needs a good slap' when ds started wailing and screaming. The whole point of whispering is that the person you are whispering about shouldn't be able to hear you,you silly cow!

YANBU, op.

I wouldn't judge, and I'd probably suspect SN, but only because I work with students with special needs, particularly autism. I ended up involved in a situation in a store a few weeks back where I had noticed a child fairly obviously stimming, but a few minutes later had a full meltdown. We were in a store that sold crystal glassware and homewares, and he began trying to throw the items off the shelves and at others in the store or hitting himself with them. Mum tried to restrain him, but then a rude woman with a face like a cats arse decided to very helpfully come out with "brats like that should be locked up". His poor mum just broke down in tears. It was very obviously more than a temper tantrum, and her comment was so unnecessary. Unless you're actually doing something to help, then shut up and move on with your lives.

I wouldn't assume SN. But then I wouldn't call people thick (as a previous poster has done) for not doing so.

No-one apart from those who know the child knows whether they have SN or not.

I'd glance over, give a sympathetic smile and then be on my way. dragging my tantruming 5 yo behind me

If it's any help ds1 and I ended rolling round the aisles at Tescos the other day. I bent down to reason with him (first error). Then let go of him (second error) then didn't move quickly enough when he ran at me to knock me over (third and final error). That particular melt down only ended when he cracked his head on the floor.

I got some looks but there we are. He was mortified when he was back in control, and frankly the lookers and just fuck off.

I wouldn't assume ASD. Many NT children are still going for it way past the age of 7.

And I would disagree that it looks or is different in children with autism (and yes, I know many autistic children). A child who has lost it, has lost it. It's demeaning to NT children to describe their feelings as "just" a tantrum.

Knickers - I used the word 'thick' after years of tuts, head shakes, stares, shouting and swearing from people who are ignorant enough to not notice a) my nearly 6 foot son is not talking in his screaming and b) has a ruddy great communication aid hanging from his neck. I do think people who are ignorant enough to think that a child cannot be disabled because he looks normal are thick. I make no apologies for using the word - it still a lot nicer than the way they're behaving towards us.

I also said I don't bother with that brigade anymore / they can think what they like. We focus on the nice people we meet because of ds1. Such as the lady on the tills yesterday at Tesco. She didn't have any particular experience of SN (I would guess from her reaction), she was just a nice, open minded person.

Ds1 - my rather larger filter of the good from the bad.

And I do think it often looks different. Ds1 would hit his head on concrete during a meltdown. He's broken so down with his head during meltdowns. Neither of my NT children would hurt themselves during a tantrum.

*windows

I give a sympathetic look and think maybe the child has SN, but equally it could just be a bad day. I certainly wouldn't judge.

Almost 7yo DS was having a whinge about something and thumped me in the stomach in the shop yesterday. They've had 2 full on sibling scraps on the floor (one in Pret one in Boots - it's seared on my memory ).