To think that if you see an older child (7) having what appears to be a full scale temper tantrum

[Sparklysilversequins]

Screaming and hitting her mother in the supermarket it would be common sense to assume that child may have SN and not stop and stare, shake your head or mutter?

No aggression here, but is that what you would assume?

Big meltdown in Tesco with dd today. She has autism. It's Halloween, too many sweets, excited, change of routine as not in school this week, so many contributory factors.

I HAD to get our shopping, we'd run out of everything, it had to be done so I couldn't leave. She got quite distressed, very quickly. I managed to calm her in the end by letting her walk round glued to me with her head inside my coat, all good.

But the looks! The head shakes, people openly staring at us as we walked up the aisle, not even pretending to look elsewhere. In the end I must have said "she has autism, no need to stare" about 10 times!

If you see this, please assume that's what's going on and not stare at us. It's so hard to deal with anyway. Thanks .

kinky don't you think you are being s bit judgmental yourself? I don't think all older children without sn who have tantrums are spoilt or brats. my friend who had tantrums as an older child wasn't spoilt or a brat, I think she was just emotionally immature. she would get hysterical and didn't know how to calm herself down, she was always really sorry and embarrassed afterwards. I have spoken to her recently about it and she said they were really frightening and upsetting.

I wouldn't assume SN if a 7 year old was having a massive tantrum in the supermarket.

But I wouldn't stop and I wouldn't stare.

I might give the mother a rueful grin of solidarity if I caught her eye.

Or I might, depending on the circumstances, try to engage the child to distract them. Which I realise would be a terrible idea if the kid had autism.

But he'd spotted her trying to manage the trolley and the child and failing, gone to help and when she'd said 'We're fine, he's autistic' in a very defensive tone, he'd not registered it and said ' I know, I'm an Aspie, I know what meltdowns are like, I'll push the trolley and you manage him.

What an amazing kid :)

You must have been so proud.

Actually I wouldn't assume SN - as mine still had/have the occasional melt down.

Staring at any age isn't helpful.

Though I have more time for people who try and help with engaging my DC once they get to that point there isn't much point as they are beyond reason and it often isn't helpful.

SilverApples your DS sounds brilliant though - finding a way to help that is actually helpful and supportive.

silverapples, your story brought a tear to my eye. What a kind and thoughtful boy :)

'Wouldn't you assume a child that age (8) had issue, rather than that they were a brat having a tantrum?'

See the problem I have with this question, is that I would never look at an 8 year old having a tantrum and just think they were "a brat".

I'd just think they were a kid having a bad day.

Well if anyone sees me out with DS (he is on reins so SN pretty obvious with him, aged 10) and he has gone into one I would heartily welcome a "can I help?"

I do find it hard to believe that 6/7/8 NT year olds have massive tantrums. So glad my DS1 was over them at 3/4.

I know that will get me flamed

I wouldn't stare. I'd give you that knowing look, straight in the eye - and on the extremely rare offchance that I was shopping without either of my two, both capable of their own retail drama, ask if you needed a hand with anything.

I hope you managed to drop something soothing into your trolley for yourself.

TBH, I was delighted that
a) He'd noticed what was happening
b)Understood that he could do something to help
c) Gone and done it.

Not much to expect from an NT teenager, huge steps for him and the end result of years of working with him. Yes, I'm proud of the person he has become, but when he was 7, he was that child in meltdown being tutted at and judged.

Midnight thank you for being there for her. I have often sat in car parks (for supermarkets, cinemas, theme parks) with tears streaming because of other peoples reactions to DS2.

SilverApples wow what a great level of empathy

Well done to your DS

"Not much to expect from an NT teenager"

I don't know, I think many (most?) NT 15 year olds would not have noticed, understood they could help, or had the initiative and confidence to go an do it.

It shows remarkable kindness and compassion for a teenager to see an adult struggling with a baby and to go and help them :)

He doesn't have a lot of empathy with humans TBH, but he runs on logic.
So he often does helpful, kind things because it's logical for him to help, rather than because it's a nice thing to do. Nor does he seem to get a glow of satisfaction from a good deed, he does it and moves on to the next thing.
People have thanked him, and he's just stared at them and moved off!

Spinkle - I loved Waitrose, when we had one. Sainsburys have recently opened a smaller store near us, though and, while it doesn't stock everything that we like, it's just a nice size to get the boys around without too much drama (DS1 likes shopping - mostly because he's obsessed with coins, so likes to pay with cash and get change). We save the big Sainsburys for when we're all in good humour and really need stuff we can only get there!

We do the bulk of our food shopping at M&S, which is usually fairly pleasant, though we haven't set foot in our local one since DS1 had a rather loud, prolonged moment of his own in there, last week.

And we avoid ASDA and tesceurgh like the plague because I'm ready to punch someone by the time we've got half way round (and the choice of fresh, good quality, minimally processed food is shite). Our nearest supermarket is Tesco, but DS1 is almost guaranteed to have a meltdown in there because it's so bloody noisy and full of rude people.

op , what reaction would you prefer ? I suspect most are simply puzzled and concerned for you and ds - but that may come across as intrusive.

"So he often does helpful, kind things because it's logical for him to help, rather than because it's a nice thing to do."

Well, some people never seem to think it's logical for them to help anyone, so it's nice that his internal logic sees helping other people as something worth doing.

Those lifts in JL are awful, youthecat - I can understand not using them if in a hurry. I'll probably be in there with DS1, next week and we'll have to use the horrible lonely stairs. Can't even use the escalators, as he won't go near them.

What a lovely boy you have silverapples. Got choked up reading your post.

joinyourfellows you could try that if you don't mind my child screaming "get out of my face!" to you.

Oh op, i really do sympathise having gone through similar with my 5yo dd (suspected autism) recently.
It's bad enough having stares with a tatruming toddler but to be stared at with an older child having a full blown meltdown does not help. Infact i find it causes my dd to get worse as she feeds of the attention she gets from it.

I cannot stand people that stare, point or mutter at a child regardless of age of sn issues. It's none of their business and they should stick their noses back in the trolley and their eyes back in their sockets.

I am one of these people that just ignores other peoples children if they are being noisy, tantruming, meltdowns etc in the supermarket . I walk by and carry on what i am doing as i know full well what it is like to be a parent as it is, let alone one with sn. I find the mutters make me shout , as they have their beady eye on each and every meltdown i recieve & shouting doesn't do any good as it makes my 5yo meltdown worse than it already is. I use a calm approach in most circumstances and get eye contact with her and after 15-30 mins we reach calmness but other people can change that meltdown into an hours showdown.

I wouldn't assume special needs as I have a 7yo who has no special needs and she can still throw almighty tantrums. People can be very rude though and judge a situation way too quickly with none of the facts.

Unfortunately that's the world we live in.

Hope your day got lots better

No prolonged staring LIZS. Probably best not to approach because otherwise it's just one more person in the situation to deal with.

Sparkly no, I wouldn't stare and tut. I'd try and give a sympathetic smile as we've all experienced the dreaded tantrum in the supermarket. I might assume SEN, I might not. It all depends - if the 7 year old was in a buggy then I may assume SEN and/or a physical disability but not otherwise.

Before children I would probably have rolled my eyes at any child of any age having a tantrum.

After children if I saw a toddler having a tantrum I would feel sympathy for the parent knowing I had been there too.

Before Mumsnet if I had seen an older child having a tantrum I might have tutted and though he/she should have grown out of that by now.

After Mumsnet I feel I am more aware that there could be other issues that I know nothing about so I would try not to judge and I certainly wouldn't stare.

Supermarkets spray something in the air that makes adults buy more stuff and sends children loopy - so the parents buy more stuff to calm them down. Shop assistants have confirmed to me that this is true. I think its a well-known fact in the industry. Whenever I see a child freaking out I just blame the air.