To be pissed off DP went to a strip club....

[NancyShrew]

When I made it perfectly clear I'd be annoyed about it.

DP doesn't seem to find it an issue and I'm fuming. He wanted to go to a strip club to "see what it's like", I said I wasn't happy and we'd discuss it at a later date.

He went anyway on a works night out last night, but apparently it's fine because it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

On the flip side I know working women who would put younger women off even getting to it because, and their words 'it's not what it used to be. We used to make a fortune now it's barely worth it'.

The top earner in the last club I ever worked at was 46. She was the oldest there by a good 10 years. She looked like a dinky raven haired Barbie, with more make up than you would think conceivable to fit on one face. Lip implants, breast implants, facial fillers, botox, three pairs of eyelashes at once. In the club, where it's (deliberately) dark, she looked fantastically good to be fair. I saw her twice in the day light, and honestly...verging on frightening. She was 46 when I stopped actually, as far as I know she hasn't left.

I kept (and still do) myself little, as it's my personal preference. I didn't feel comfortable being naked unless I felt I looked the way I wanted myself to look. I have to say, that a lot of customers seemed to prefer curvier girls, more like a 10-12. Because of the physical aspect of the job, you get quite muscly...you don't really ever see any waif like strippers, even the tiniest of the tiny, like a size 0, still look healthy because they are athletic in frame.

A lot of dancers are permanently broke. There's this sort of culture where you earn the money so fast and so easily that you place no real importance on spending it. I want that thing. It's £240. Bought. Now I just need to sit with someone for half an hour tonight. It's bizarre. I don't know if the other girls on this thread did it, but I would look at prices of things in terms of dances. It does also give the comfort of knowing if you need something urgently, you can quickly get the cash. Great the boiler's just blown up. Ah well, I'll just work the next three nights. Done.

We had a variety of "house mums" thinking on it, in fact most were male. They kept the peace amongst the girls, cashed us out, booked our shifts, made sure we were keeping up to scratch with outfits etc.

Hmm good points. Sort of instant gratification then when it comes to money and spending? And I guess like anything you get used to doing that as your source of income? It would be quite hard to transition back to your routine 9-5 I suppose!

Festered I wish I was as organised as you with money :)

I'm not too concerned for the future. I have plenty of other work experience as well as qualifications and a career in mind that I want to pursue as I age. I know I may not be typical though.

Not many clubs in the UK seem to have housemums now. I've only experienced one club that did in the last few years.
I'm not a young pup myself, have danced on and off for 13 years.
I guess the employer frowning upon will always be an issue, but It's not as stigmatised as it used to be.
My friend is seeing a counsellor who used to be a massage girl lol!

I'm a size 8/10-my arms are muscular, my legs are slim but very firm-some guys pick me soley on physique and pole shows because I show off my strength a lot on stage, can do more pullups than most men I know.

Sugarhut I've always been very careful with money, when dancing and when not but I agree, a lot of dancers seem to spend before they earn!It's frightening.

Living thank you lol. TBH sometimes I'm far too tight with money, to the point where I really want something, I can afford it but I don't do it lol-or I may be really under the weather and shattered and not up for work but I Still go in because I think of the money I'm going to lose!My DP calls me 'Tightus' as a nickname!

not many women can do pull ups!
(not too many men can to them either:o )

WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE BAG, OP?!

I've come across the OP on another thread and it seems her SIL is visiting.

I would understand if he felt he had to go along with his mates. But to go ahead and pay for a private lap dance. That is taking things a step too far for my liking.
I wouldn't be happy either way, and I would also tell him I wouldn't want him to go.
I'd be pissed off if he went but learn to get over it, I'd be beyond pissed offs belief if he'd said he had a lap dance!

some of the comments in this thread are really unbelievable!!

LS: i agree anyone who works and is paid a wage is exploited whether you like it or not, it doesn't matter which profession that is, it's just not projected in that way as it's something we all have to do to keep a roof over our heads!

I always used to think that lapdancing clubs must be sleezy places to go but over the years I have been to a few specifically because you can have a late night drink and tbh to see what all the fuss was about.

I've probably only been to ones that are considered or are in fact high class ie. not back street so to speak. At first I thought OMG how can women do this (not because I find it "oh so degrading" but because I personally couldn't do it and I can't dance) but to a certain extent I was in awe, the confidence they have IS IMO empowering because they have that confidence and the power over the man (or woman for that matter) to spend money like any sales person has in any industry,which is to get them to part with money.

The confidence/empowerment is something that tbh most women lack due to the media/vocal/photoshop comments from "I'm only speaking my mind" kinda people, TBH and lets be honest about this, it's how a lot of women dance at "normal clubs" and don't get paid for it because there are lots of "celebs" doing it.

I personally would be happier for my DP to go to a lapdancing club and pay for a dance than have some "tart" who gives it away for free jumping on him cos she "thought he gave her the eye" at least at a LDC she is there to dance and in my experience that is all they are there to do, it is a job which they are paid for and to entertain the public that are prepared to pay for it!

I do respect it is our right to choose what we can and can't do because lets face it from a feminist/equality position we want to be able to do what we want and as long as it is legal we can! Can't we?

I also know that everyone likes to disagree with and look down on people for their choices in life (that don't suit our life or standards) and we all judge people for their choices, not one of you can disagree with this no matter how much you protest on MN you all know you/we do.

What they wear is also nothing you and your DP don't see on a beach in this country or on a hot day in a high street nowadays, same with celebs, how do you explain that to your daughter/son, "they are all dispicable women and you will never be like them/with them?" genuine question?

quote"A man paying a woman for sex or to dance for him isn't positive at all...it is all about HIM and his gratification and his entitlement to women's bodies. If he has that attitude in a club, are we really to believe he changes when he leaves and treats women as equals?"quote

Unless you have a man who regularly/irregularly frequents "these" places you will never know. I do and I am and always have been treated like a godess/princess and not in a derogatory way EVER! He is not entitled to my body and has never assumed he is, he is more respectful than any man I have ever known and treats me better than any person I have ever known. I accept that this is not necessarily the norm but it is not, not the norm in a loving respectful relationship.

OP problem was that her DP ignored the fact she specifically told him her views on LDC and he ignored them, that IMO is disrespectful and I would be screwing to say the least!

I also do not see a LD as cheating if there is no kissing/touching, being aroused is not cheating as someone else said you can be aroused by an actor in a film that does not constitute cheating, it may be hurtful that someone else has aroused your DP but it is NOT cheating!!

quote"Flipping burgers does not often have that kind of impact" quote

No it can just be sole destroying because you have a degree and can't get anything else like any industry can be.

"For a long time clubs where strippers made their trade where run by gangsters, the sort of people who nailed body parts to the floor if you pissed them off. They were and are very violent people who don't regard their workers as empowered, but as exploitable. Dont be fooled, your empowerment is as limited as the person who runs the club says it is." quote

As with any industry you are indispensable, when you are washed up as an actor/newsreader you are washed up ie. too old for the consumer!!No?

At the end of the day OP it is your decision to make but really people who say LTB or a LD is a deal breaker do it all too easily IMO. Being abused phyisically or emotionally or actually being cheated on is a different case. If you can forgive him for disrespecting you once (if that's what it is) and you love him dearly and your relationship otherwise is sound TBH as difficult as it might be to forget, you would be all the better together to forgive. Empathy is a great gift and should be something people learn/gain/engage in at an early age IMO

They're ALL degrading!.

RedFox...

Please don't make excuses for working in the sex industry by choice. It is not empowering. It is degrading and you are being exploited (but obviously you have to deny that to yourselves otherwise you couldn't do it).

I feel sorry for you that you actually consider doing this but I am angry that you encourage other women to do it.

Have you ever heard the expression 'turkeys voting for Christmas'?

Very patronising and it's their choice. You can't take that away from them just because you think it's morally wrong.

I don't think it's patronising at all. I am able to not agree with someone's 'choice' especially if it has an effect on me or my female friends and relatives (which frankly women 'choosing to be prostitutes/strippers' does).

Really what well-adjusted, happy, successful woman would consider selling herself sexually as a career option? Who would advocate this for their own daughters?

It's a sad, horrible industry. I knew very well a lovely, funny, bright young woman who became a table dancer and the rest. She would have agreed with you that it was her choice, can earn lots of money etc etc. Guess what? She hasn't ended up with her own business, some lovely children, a good job, enough money to retire. She ended up addicted, in debt, on her own, in poor health. Victorians used to call prostitutes ruined women - ever wondered why?

I'm sorry that your table dancer friend ended up in debt. I made countless thousands. Or that she doesn't have her own business or a good job, where I am a chartered accountant, and only stopped doing the accountancy again because basically I don't need to work much anymore. I'm sorry that her health is poor, I'm fit as a fiddle (touches wood quickly.) Sounds like life's been a bit shit for her, it MUST be down to her attempting to table dance you know. My life has been amazing, and a lot of that was down to the dancing and the opportunities it gave me.

Same applies to the rest of my friends that used to dance, or still do.

Yet another super informed div telling me that I WAS exploited. No poppet, you don't get to tell me how I feel, or how a job you know so evidently bugger all about works, so don't make yourself look like an arse and tell me otherwise because you can't get your head round it. You see it as selling sex. Ask any dancer if she sells sex and watch her look at you rather bemused. Perhaps it's an industry thing, and as someone with no experience of it (but don't let that stop you banging on thinking you know everything there is to know) you just don't get it. Well, you don't or you wouldn't come out with things that people who have worked in the industry for years find so hilarious.

Ah yes. I've just realised, you're right!I've been wrong all along!I'm not happy, I'm not enjoying my job, I'm suddenly feeling exploited and upset, I might go get some drugs. You know me far better than I know me!

Ahem. Not really. Aside from enjoying a drink a few times a week (I suppose It's only lapdancers who like to drink too) I've never touched a drug in my life.

I wouldn't come along and say that all insert frillyflower's occupation here's are XYZ. Because I'm not daft enough to think I know everything about an occupation I likely have never done. People are diverse y'know. Just because you know of one lapdancer's experience and issues does not mean we're all like that. Nor does it mean that these issues and experiences are exclusive to one occupation, lapdancing or not.
It's an unfounded generalisation founded on little experience and one or two incidents that do not apply to the whole adult industry occupation.
I know plenty of people who are happy with their lives, and plenty who aren't. I would say that all the latter are adult industry workers and all the former work in a bank. But I won't because that'd be stupid. And not true.

I started out with a liberal view on it in my twenties, but over time my feelings (informed by more experience of the industry) changed and I no longer wanted to enable it.

What I will say is this. The women weren't wailing and pitiful. They didn't spend most of their time crying or moaning their lot. Some of them regarded themselves as a sort of royalty of the club and you should have seen preparations they made for their jobs. It made a supermodel look scruffy. They enjoyed the artistry of it. When they walked down the street men visibly gaped at them. That can be a great feeling, you know, particularly if you have problems with self esteem. It is not a case of universal misery. Some women were utterly miserable, but they had other problems which pre existed starting working in the clubs. The job exaggerated those problems and made them worse.

I would reserve criticism for the punters. They really were horrible, from all classes and creeds, and quite pathetic. There are plenty of good men out there, but you won't find them in these clubs. Which I must add, are classed as premises for sexual entertainment. Clubs pay absolute fortunes for these licences and believe me if they could not and offer the same then they would. The law holds that they are sexual venues, and pretending otherwise is silly.

Yanbu

Agree very much with what pinkhalf says. If you've got issues already, dancing will very rarely improve them. If you don't have issues, dancing will very rarely create them.

With regards to a sexual venue...yes, indeed. Premises for sexual entertainment? Absolutely. The dance is a sexUAL/erotic performance, I can dress in a sexUAL/erotic fashion. This is not the same as sex. I'm very unsure why people are pretending they can't see the distinction. Oral sex. Anal sex. One body part entering another. That's sex.

We never have been and never will be sex workers. Putting it in words of one syllable: We don't fuck for cash. We always have been and always will be providing dances of a sexual nature. It's a massive difference. And not rocket science. This dumb ass pretence of not being able to see the difference is frankly getting boring.

That's true :) if you're troubled, dancing can also provide a situation where you can make bad choices. If you're not, then you'd be unlikely to make bad choices anyway (I'm referring to things like drugs,excessive drinking, going home with men you don't know well, getting into debt etc). Also note that a lot of non-dancers have these sorts of issues. If you're not troubled you'd likely not make these choices anyway even though dancing may make them readily available. I've known troubled dancers. I've also known troubled civil servants and troubled shop assistants.
One issue I had before dancing was insecurity, and dancing definitely improved that. I also used to have issues with food (just a chaotic eater) and I think dancing calmed that down as it meant I have to take care of myself, and I had to eat something before work otherwise I'd get irritable and exhausted.
There is a definite distinction between someone who sells sex and someone who dances naked. A DEFINITE difference!

I don't personally mind being referred to as a sex worker. Whatever. I'm not a Prostitute or an escort, I'm a dancer (I also do webcam work). Is a webcam girl a sex worker?Yes I guess. A dominatrix-yes....Other fetishes?Yes....They don't HAVE SEX though.

I think telling the women who dance in these clubs that they are being exploited but that they either don't know it or are in denial is unbelievably patronising! So much for feminism - presumably a woman can only do what she wants with her life (and her body) if she conforms to something that the feminists approve of?

And Festered what you say makes a lot of sense. I made 'bad choices' like you described in your last post when I was younger but I have never done your line of work - so how someone chooses to earn a living is irrelevant to the choices they make.

I think the distinction between someone who dances naked for money in order to sexually entertain someone, and someone who has sex for money is what you make of it, really.

Strippers might not self-identify as sex workers, but plenty of other people do think they are sex workers, and it just depends on what their working definition of a sex worker is. There's no hard and fast clarity about who gets to define these terms.

I think telling the women who dance in these clubs that they are being exploited but that they either don't know it or are in denial is unbelievably patronising! So much for feminism - presumably a woman can only do what she wants with her life (and her body) if she conforms to something that the feminists approve of?
I wish I had put that sentence together-It's definitely how I feel about it!:)
There is nothing wrong with my brain or emotions that would make me not realise I am being exploited.Then again I definitely was in that office job I mentioned, and I knew it-it wasn't unusual though. We all sell some part of our 'self'if we work for others.
I can't say no women become dancers and it 'taints' their personality or gives them 'issues'.I don't know that to be fact. But I haven't seen it happen, in over a decade of dancing.
Headsdownthumbsup....Yes I guess. As I said, I'm not really bothered personally about being identified as a sex worker. I'm sure plenty of folk's official occupation has connotations that don't reflect what they actually do!