To be pissed off DP went to a strip club....

[NancyShrew]

When I made it perfectly clear I'd be annoyed about it.

DP doesn't seem to find it an issue and I'm fuming. He wanted to go to a strip club to "see what it's like", I said I wasn't happy and we'd discuss it at a later date.

He went anyway on a works night out last night, but apparently it's fine because it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

[HeadsDownThumbsUp]

A bit off topic. But do you think that anyone can be exploited without realising it? Do you think that exploitation always in the eye of the beholder, as it were?

[Festered]

It's a very interesting question.
I'm thinking as I'm typing so this will be a ramble. On one hand, yes.... There's no way I can say this without sounding like I am arrogant, but I am of above average intelligence-many people are not. In previous jobs I've had, I've seen people doing horrible jobs for very little pay,talked down to, mistreated and seen them appear to be happy with this when really, in MY view-me doing that would be exploiting me. But,on the 'No', if they're actually genuinely happy with what they do-how can they be being exploited?Can they be?
If we apply this to the adult industry-could a not particularly smart porn actress or a desperate for money stripper/camgirl be lured to doing things she personally wasn't comfortable with, because it would get her more money?Yes of course. Is that exploitation?Maybe.
But she has the option to say no-always. But then she might lose her job...Or at least lose THAT customer or that contract.
That can be applied to more or less any industry as well. Is that exploitation?Maybe. Is it more so for an adult entertainment industry worker because the alleged exploitation involves their body rather than their mind?
On that note, an overworked accountant/secretary/fast food operative, still risks their health if they're 'exploited'.But , it doesn't involved their sexual parts. Doesn't involve their nudity.
Is that what makes a difference?Because being exploited sexually is worse than other physical or mental 'exploitation'?
The only situation I can think of where exploitation can go on without the exploited realising it, is an abusive relationship?But then-abusive relationships can happen in the workplace.
Ugh, that was long. I don't know! :)

[SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones]

To me, the sexual aspect makes a difference - but some people might think that makes me a prude. I don't think I am.

But I don't condemn women for working within the sex industry - even when their posts are as boastful as sugarhut's (and her MN posting on other boards doesn't necessarily bear out that boastfulness) - but I don't agree with 'choosy-choice' feminism - ie. that every woman's choice in this world is a 'feminist' or 'empowered' one.

[Festered]

Sabrina it makes a difference for me too. If you're persuaded to do sexual acts against your true will, I think it can cause more mental health issues than if you're persuaded to work longer hours against your will, to give one (fairly bad) example. I think a sexually abused child will likely be more mentally damaged than a physically abused one. It's deeper seated abuse. Feel free to disagree, I could be wrong, or I could just feel more strongly than others about sexual abuse and being exploited sexually, than other forms of it.
I'm not a prude either, in terms that I have done some fairly kinky things with my OH. I've had a threesome. I do fetishes on cam, I'm a stripper.
But, I am precious about sex, and my persona encompasses a value on sex that means, if I was to have sex against my will, or when I didn't want it, or with somebody I didn't particularly want to share my sex with-I know it would affect me very badly.
I know escorts who will have sex for money, and be okay with it-they can go about their lives as normal after having sex with people they have next to no feelings for, or who they don't particularly like. I'm not saying that's wrong, it just isn't me.I know promiscuous women who can go out every weekend and take two different strangers or almost strangers , home and say 'bye the next day and not bother. I couldn't do that. Well physically I could obviously, but mentally it would be a nightmare.
The feminist movement has done a lot of good obviously. But in my view, it's all about personal choice. Women shouldn't be confined, or forced to do things because they're women.
They should be equal to men in societial institutions' view-i.e free to take the job they WANT . Dress how they WANT. Make life choices based on what they WANT.
And if what they want to do involves staying at home cooking and cleaning, that's fine. If they want a high powered career that takes them all over the world, that's fine. If they want to sell sex, that's fine.Anything in between!
It's about the choice.

[SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones]

I totally agree that women should be what they want in society - but that should be on equal terms to men. How is working in a strip club really 'doing what they want'? Do women really aspire to taking their clothes off and dancing for men in public?

What you're really saying is that they're taking their clothes off and wiggling their bits for money - or even doing the robot dance while someone laughs at/with them for money is 'empowering' - but is it? Or is it just subscribing to the role of women to be a sexual plaything for men?

I mean - fine - a woman could be sexually playful with men in a mutually consensual relationship - but as soon as money changes hands isn't the dynamic changed somewhat? Ie. it's not consensual - you're not doing for your own pleasure?

[Festered]

I'm not saying It's empowering at all-hang on I think I actually said earlier that the only 'empowerment' I feel is the fact that, well I'm up at 230 am now having a glass of wine and engaging in an interesting conversation, because I can. I don't have to get up early tomorrow . I find it 'freeing' to be a stripper, more than empowering-because I believe in working smarter, not harder. Everyone needs money-and if I can earn in 2 nights what most people earn in 5 days, then I will take the former option. That might be slightly empowering (not my choice of word, though).
I guess I kind of do it for my own pleasure, but not sexual pleasure. I strip because it means that I'm free five days a week and don't have to worry about money or time off or nasty bosses... Those sorts of things havecaused me stress in the past.
As for wiggling your bits, that's a very personal perception.
Okay last time I worked, I only 'danced' for customers for 2 hours in total.This is a pretty typical night. I basically sat on laps, talked, teased my clothes off, pretended I was turned on for certain customers (my regulars aren't bothered!) moved around on the sofas a fair bit to give them different views of my body. Posed on a pole.
Whilst I was doing this, I'm acting. In the back of my mind I'm thinking about other things sometimes, I'm finding funny things to talk about-I'm listening to the guy and trying to make it entertaining, I make him feel good about himself.
As for aspirations, I find it amusing and a bit weird-but I actually did. I went to a strip club on a male friend's birthday and I was in awe of the beautiful women in there, and one of them asked why didn't I do it?I said 'I never could!' I was insecure about my looks and generally , myself.
She said I could and asked me to talk to the manager . I didn't. Then a series of shitty life circumstances happened, and I couldn't stop thinking about doing it-just as a thing to do once to say I had, kind of thing.
I thought about it loads and loads and decided to give it a go.
In between being a stripper I've worked other jobs related to my degrees (I have a BA and an MA) and done a bunch of other things, and I did other jobs before I stripped, I honestly much, much prefer being a dancer-It's not about wiggling your bits 95% of the time, It's acting, making men (and women!) have an experience they're happy with, being a bubbly, fun, attentive person. I sometimes return home from work and my cheeks ache from laughing so much-a lot of strippers are hilarious people, they're a breed of their own. And sure I've met a lot of screwed up girls . But I've also met some of the most intelligent, caring, funny women ever. I feel very lucky to have been able to experience being a stripper. I'm not trying to glorify it, this is just one person's experience. I have never once felt exploited doing the job I do.

[SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones]

I can see that you have a very ok 'experience' in this sector, festered. I'm not about to try and belittle that. I know what it feels like - People have called me "little more than a prostitute" on here for being a sahm.

I would just ask if you could do the same hours/same wages doing something else - would you? Or would you advise your daughter to follow your career? I don't, and would never want to belittle you personally - but I hate the whole culture of men paying for women to do sexual things for them- I think it belittles women as a whole class. But I don't think you personally should feel responsible for that - it's the culture that allows this that I dislike.

[Festered]

Don't worry I don't feel you're belittling me.So you mean if say, I could type at a desk for the same hours and same pay would I?
No-I don't think so. Few reasons. Being a stripper helps my confidence. I'll be having a day where I've got spots/feel fat/am full of cold/something's gone wrong, and then I'll think back to the fact that I'm paid for my attractiveness and personality (believe me, personality is what sells a lot of the time!) and I feel better. It also means I'm inspired to keep fit and healthy.Working doing something else generally wouldn't do that. Also, feel free to flame me but I do like to feel desirable. It isn't the be all and end all of where I get my self-value from, far from it-but It's encompassed. I like being a stripper. I like talking to people and having the funny experiences that come with the job.
I don't necessarily think It's right that women should be paid to fulfill men's perpetual desire for sexual gratification. But thinking about that, I think that's nature that men are more stimulated by sexual desires and fulfilment, than women are. That's where the balance lies-and I'm actually grateful for it most of the time, because I'm very happy to profit from it financially and otherwise. Wrong/right...I don't really know. For now I'm happy with it-nobody is forcing anybody where I'm concerned. I've experienced a lot more boyfriends.husbands who disapprove of their stripper girlfriend/wife's occupation, than I have pimps or men who make their girlfriend strip-in fact the former I've known of once and the latter, never!
I like the fact that I can earn money because of what I was born with. People need 'tools' to gain money. Everyone needs money sad as that fact is, and the tools can be experience/knowledge/skill... I'm very lucky to be able to do it fairly easily because I'm 'supposedly' attractive and pleasant company.
Would I advise my daughter to follow me?
No. For a few reasons.

1. I believe the industry is dying. By the time she'd be old enough, she 'd not have the time to gain the experience required to profit from it, financially or emotionally
   
2. I wouldn't advise her to do anything unless she had already expressed intrest in it.
   3)By the time she'd be older, ANY industry I had experienced, would have changed and I'd likely not be able to give good advice on it
   (Those are in no order)!
   Also, I cannot answer this without knowing what my daughter would be like, at what age she would perhaps express interest. If she was already in a bad crowd and experimenting with undesirable things (drugs/unsafe sex) etc (I **ing hope not)! Then I would be very against it.
   If she was savvy, happy, but fed up with being a desk-monkey, I would be a whole lot different about it.
   I'd worry more about things that my OH worries about with me being a stripper, make her get walked to her car/taxi each night for example, rather than the job itself.

[Festered]

Sorry I didn't add-that comment about being a SAHM is really very idiotic. For one, some women are happy and fulfilled being prostitutes so whoever said it is judgemental and uninformed and also, if you're happy ,your child/ren are happy, andy you're not hurting anybody then It's a no brainer really.

[SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones]

Thanks festered, this has been very interesting. Please don't call people 'desk monkeys' though! I worked in a office for many years before I had children, and I would hate to have been called a desk monkey. They were always interesting jobs that gave me a fab social life, many good friends, and I have always worked hard to be slim and attractive - just because I like to be. I've always liked to feel desirable too - so no flaming there from me!

Why do you think the industry is dying out of interest?

[SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones]

Yes - the sahm thing = prostitution is very idiotic - and I recognise it as so.

[Festered]

Lol sorry-I was being as bad as people who flame me for being a stripper then wasn't I ;)
I didn't mean it offensively at all, I meant if in the hypothetical circumstance you gave me, that is how my daughter was to feel about herself, then yes (dependent on the other circumstances I mentioned!) I may not be adverse to her being a stripper.
I'm glad you had good experiences, personally I think I was just unlucky in the job I had that was given to me as a result of my M.A, I was treated horrendously-I think it was just an extremely undesirable company really.The job itself was interesting and fulfilling, fine !But the people were horrendous.
Well because of the recession predominantly. I've been dancing on and off for 13 years. It used to be very easy money,I would earn in one night what I earned in a month at my office job, fairly often.Now, as I stated before, It's a week's wage in two nights or thereabouts . And I only get that because I'm pretty good at what I do-other women struggle. It isn't easy money any longer.
I guess when people have to make cutbacks, frivolous expenditure is the first thing to go, and paying for a lapdance is a luxury.
Also,the fact that society is more accepting now, means that more and more clubs are opening.When I first began dancing in a large city, there was one club. Now, same city-7.
There are many many lapdancing clubs now compared to 10 years ago-If you put a supermarket in a village, it'll thrive. Put another next door-neither will do that well.
Add to that more expensive licensing-and yes, a dying business.

[SabrinaMulFUCKERJjones]

btw I'm a terrible insomniac since I gave up alcohol a few months ago hence why I'm up so late! I'm off to bed now - I still have to do the school run in the morning

[Festered]

I need to give up alcohol. But I guess the fact that I'm a stripper, and in order to deal with my horrible life, I have to drink, means I may just have to have another :p
Good night xx