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Original poster

To be pissed off DP went to a strip club....

689 replies

NancyShrew · 25/10/2013 11:13

When I made it perfectly clear I'd be annoyed about it.

DP doesn't seem to find it an issue and I'm fuming. He wanted to go to a strip club to "see what it's like", I said I wasn't happy and we'd discuss it at a later date.

He went anyway on a works night out last night, but apparently it's fine because it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

OP posts:
Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 21:52

Split, that doesn't fly, plenty of jobs have a negative impact on society and cater only for the gratification of the customer

festered · 28/10/2013 21:57

LSuzanne is asking why paying someone to have sex with you is different to paying them to do anything else for you.

And also, regards male prostitutes/escorts-do you think this is wrong as well, or is it all about the misogyny and women selling sex?

Hamdangle, I do enjoy my work most of the time,however I have never stated that every woman I know does. I actually detailed tha I have seen women leave because they felt degraded, and others confide that they had to intoxicate themselves in order to deal with the job.
It is definitely not an 'easy way to make a quick buck' either. Not nowadays. I have been a dancer for thirteen years on and off. I left whilst I studied, got a 'good job' and was mistreated to the point where I was on the verge of industrial tribunal and was signed off with work related stress I was subject to intense office bullying, a lot to do with the way I looked but on the opposite side of the spectrum. In the end I was dismissed.

As I mentioned before I did my thesis on pornography and am pretty au fait with what goes on in porn. The most popular porn categories do not involve violence, and a lot of violence in porn involves violence toward men. Do you regard this type of porn as wrong too, even though it is there for the purpose of male arousal?

Please understand, I am not trying to defend the industry I work in,I am just giving another angle. It's something that interests me too. I've detailed why I do the job and my reasons have little to do with the actual job itself. I do it because I want my life to not orientate around work, and luckily for me, I enjoy the job.
For the record my Mother, who is a very successful businesswoman (in a non-sex related industry!) does have concerns for my safety but aside from that, has always stressed that as long as I am happy, then this is my life.
My Father doesn't like it, however he and I have never seen eye to eye and he wasn't happy with me doing any other job I have done, either, (or indeed anything I've ever done at all lol) so I feel he's somewhat irrelevant.

SplitHeadGirl · 28/10/2013 21:57

Yes, I know, and they are wrong too. I'm not sure I get your point here....just because other morally corrupt and damaging jobs exist does not make buying women ok.

fanjofarrow · 28/10/2013 22:03

I agree with you completely, hamdangle.

Jinsei · 28/10/2013 22:03

I don't judge women who work in the sex industry at all, whether they're strippers or prostitutes. I wouldn't do it myself, but they obviously have their reasons, and if some of them feel good about what they do, then I'm glad for them. It's not for me to decide how other women should or shouldn't use their bodies.

I do judge the men who pay for sexual services, and I would not stay in a relationship with someone who thought this was ok.

I am very surprised that sugar believes that so-called "clean strippers" aren't providing sexual services. For me, there is no fundamental difference between a stripper and a prostitute. Both take payment from men in exchange for services that their clients find sexually gratifying. The touching is incidental in my view, and not that significant - just different points along a continuum.

OP - I hope you are ok.

Strumpetron · 28/10/2013 22:05

just because other morally corrupt and damaging jobs exist does not make buying women ok

You are failing to acknowledge that it's a woman's body to do what she wants with, if she wants to sell her sexual services then let her.

We talk about women's rights, but then it's fellow women who want to restrict what others do because it doesn't fit their personal moral compass.

SplitHeadGirl · 28/10/2013 22:12

She can do what she likes, but sadly the consequences for others exist, and because of this, women have THEIR right to speak out against it. One woman's right to do what she wants with her body does NOT trump the freedoms and expressions of every other woman whose lives are affected by the drip-drip of misogyny perpetuated by these clubs.

Caitlin17 · 28/10/2013 22:15

The difference between prostitution and other manual jobs Lazy S listed, well what about risk of STD, being raped, being beaten up, links to money laundering and organised crime, perpetuating misogynistic and chauvinistic attitudes?

Sugar and LazyS are pushing this Happy Booker idea. If it's just another viable career choice why are there so many agencies dealing with the damage limitation of this career choice and trying to enable women out of it.
I'm not aware of there being any need for the equivalent of Scot Pep for plumbers for example.

Caitlin17 · 28/10/2013 22:16

Sorry, Hooker,not Booker

BasilFucker · 28/10/2013 22:23

I understand that it's anyone's right to do what they want with their body.

I fail to understand why any human being would want to use another human being's body as a glorified masturbation aid when that human being clearly didn't want them to and would only put up with you doing so, if you pay them money.

That's a totally different scenario from entering a fun, joyful, sexy encounter with someone who wants to have sex with you.

If you have to pay someone to do it - if they wouldn't do it unless you pay them- then why on earth would you retain the desire to have sex on them? Every time the sex industry is discussed, people focus on the motives of those who are being bought - their motives, their feelings, their free will. No-one wants to discuss the motives of the people who are buying the body of someone else in order to have sex on them even though that person doesn't want them to.

The reason sex is different from any other service, is because it shouldn't be a service. It should be fun. Cleaning, shelf-stacking, taxi driving - they can all be fun in their way, but they are not necessarily supposed to be. If we can't aspire to sex being fun, instead of a joyless service like cleaning, then we're really not much of a culture IMO.

festered · 28/10/2013 22:24

I am more concerned with the STD risk that occurs with casual sex, than the risk with prostitution. Prostitutes are much, much more likely to insist on using a barrier method of contraception. Not that I insist this is fullproof, of course but it scares me the amount of women who will go out on a night and engage in sexual activity with people they have barely taken a couple of hours to get to know.

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 22:42

I agree with Basil in as much as I would take a dim view of a man who was happy to have sex with a woman knowing that she'd not do it if he wasn't paying.

But if she's happy with the arrangement that's up to her.

However I don't see how we can say that sex 'ought' to be fun and not a service, once again we are making a special case for sex without saying why.

Where is it written in stone that sex or any other human activty ought to be experienced in a certain way.

These things are social constructs

Lazysuzanne · 28/10/2013 22:45

Also the risks of prostitution are not inherent to prostitution and I wouldn't claim that it isn't problematic.

Strumpetron · 28/10/2013 23:00

People harped on about labels but then come out with 'happy hooker'. Absolutely hate that saying. No, they're women who are happy with their job choice.

Darkesteyes · 28/10/2013 23:15

festered does it also scare you the amount of men who do that or just the women Hmm

Donkeyok · 29/10/2013 00:26

What an interesting thread, consumed me for an hour. Hamdangle I agree with your advice to young girls it is what I find myself saying to my own daughter. Yes earn your own money and buy your own handbagGrin. Still what to know about response to OPs handbag.

festered · 29/10/2013 03:34

I can confirm I earn my own money although I haven't bought a handbag for a long time :)
Darkesteyes, it scares me all people who do it, although the risks are greater for women and as we were all talking about the objectification of women and the risks of being a prostitute or working in the sex industry, for women mainly-I thought it more suited to just say women.

I have honestly never heard the phrase 'Happy Hooker' until now!

Auntybella · 29/10/2013 07:33

Ok but WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE OP? Have you spoken to your partner? How was it resolved? Did you keep the bag?

Thread derailment of epic proportions!

Crowler · 29/10/2013 09:14

Argh. I hate this post-feminism nonsense. What a tortured bit of logic that sees strip clubs as empowering to women.

Caitlin17 · 29/10/2013 13:36

Crowler and there you have it. I completely agree but it seems to be a very polarised subject. I'm not remotely convinced by the for arguments on here that it's just a job and the other side will never agree with you or me.

pinkhalf · 29/10/2013 14:09

Look, its not empowering to women to sell sex or sell supposed sexual availibility.

Why not?

Because if something is empowering, you don't have to tell yourself it is. You don't have to tell other people it is. They know. They can see it. You are only empowered to the degree that other people see that.

Otherwise you are just fooling yourself.

I have met lots of strippers, prostitutes and managers of these services. They don't call it empowering. It's supposed to be degrading. That is part of the enjoyment for the punters. Any man who can get a woman without paying tends to not be so concerned with that. It's not his kick. The ones that do go go for the kick of it.

Lots of strippers are often academics, students, or just broke. And they do tell themselves that they are empowered, it is just a stepping stone, it's not their life. Then you can feel okay about it. But for plenty of women who don't plan on research thesis on the sociological impact of perspex shoes its a dead shitty job which can screw them up and change their life in some way they never dreamed of. That is why the industry is different. Flipping burgers does not often have that kind of impact. For a long time clubs where strippers made their trade where run by gangsters, the sort of people who nailed body parts to the floor if you pissed them off. They were and are very violent people who don't regard their workers as empowered, but as exploitable. Dont be fooled, your empowerment is as limited as the person who runs the club says it is. A few years of corporate strip clubs do not remove the problem. It has made it more acceptable, imo, but its still the same crock. An intelligent woman stays the hell away from it.

Coldcoldheart · 29/10/2013 14:34

The OP's probably been arrested for theft.

SugarHut · 29/10/2013 14:35

My old club was run by 3 ex lap dancers. They were fantastic owners. I wish I'd argued more. .. Maybe they could have nailed my extensions to the floor. Arf!!!!

Crowler · 29/10/2013 14:35

The "empowerment" angle would possibly be more a subjective matter if you had lots of clubs where men danced for women, "taking" their money from them for their own advancement, paying their way through school, etc.

If this were true, you could possibly make this argument with a straight face, because it wouldn't be about (some) women existing for the enjoyment of (some) men - it would be more a comment on humans seeking some form of transactional contact from other humans.

But this isn't the case.

festered · 29/10/2013 15:45

Pinkhalf I convince myself of nothing. I will work as a stripper until I'm too old and/or do not enjoy it any longer. (Until my zimmerframe won't get up the pole :) )
I don't tell myself I'm empowered, I don't really 'tell myself' anything..I don't have much need to justify, as far as I'm concerned I'm happy, living life much more relaxed than if I worked in a 'normal' job.

Kind of ironic that my sociological thesis was on the affects of pornography and did touch on sex work in general.

The manager of my usual club is brilliant. He's just a youngish guy with management experience, who got the job by knowing people who asked him if he'd like to do it .He whinges a lot but is very fair and understanding.