Men looking at my 13year old daughter

[marmitenot]

I went out with my 13 yr old dd yesterday and a couple of her friends. My daughter, although very pretty (doesn't get it from me!), is clearly a young teen and yet men (old and young) were leering over her and distinctly 'checking her out'.

The looks they were giving my daughter made me extremely uncomfortable and really cross.

AIBU to expect men to control themselves around children?

not quite sure why I have been shouted at for pointing out the obvious fact that this behaviour is engrained and always will be

of course I dont like it, and I agree with Kerala

However a small group of us getting (rightly) annoyed about it wont change anything right now

accepting something does not mean we condone it

when one of my sons was 13, ( a very young 13 yr old iyswim)at a well built 6ft plus and middle aged gay man groped his backside as we walked down the street of a seaside town on holiday. He was confused and upset and i had to make sure he walked close to me and i glared at the obvious leering that was going on around him.

just recently my 15 yr old daughter was approached in primart by a middle aged asian man, who leered at her and went and stood very close to her, , I was only a few feet away, by the time she moved to me and explained he was gone.
i stick close to her now when we go shopping.

Can't believe the apologists for unacceptable behaviour on this thread!

OP YANBU.

An appreciative glance at a teenage boy or pretty girl from a middle-aged woman is hardly the same thing as the kind if sexual objectification of very young girls by older men. They do it - often in an exaggerated way - because it is socially sanctioned, and it is a form of social regulation and intimidation of women and girls, starting early so we all get the idea of what our place is.

A woman checks out an attractive teenage boy for a second - does that teenage experience it as threatening, intrusive? Socially sanctioned even if unwelcome? Does he fear for his physical safety? Probably not. The Mail is not full of stories every day of prepubescent and teenage boys raped and murdered by middle-aged women.
An older man leers, performatively, at a 11, 12, 13-year old girl. He is physically bigger than her. She finds it unwelcome and frightening. She has the distinct impression, whether or not it is true, that if she were alone or unprotected it might go further. She has no way of knowing, if so, if she would be safe.
What is that saying - deep down men fear that women will laugh at them - deep down women fear that men will kill them?
Socially-sanctioned objectification of very young girls is part of the problem.

It's vile. Was in a pub once and a young woman came out of the loos and walked past, a guy behind her leered and really caught me off guard and pissed me off - it was so disgusting and degrading and out of order.

It is not just an innocent look.

How to deal with unwanted attention including from the most creepy people?

I wish I knew as I never found a good way and my girls are growing up fast.

I have seen more confident people call men out who've called comments out it's harder with just a leer I think but that can get abusive language thrown back and if there is a group it's hard to deal with.

Mind you when I was with a bunch of men 20's, field trip, who did start as a group pevring at young teenagers in school uniform who had just got of the bus - it wasn't me the female who said anything but one of them pointing out how young they were then they stopped looked sheepish and then one even apologized to me. I wanted to say something - but didn't.

Actually i think it's quite common, not nice and not innocent.
there's a lot of "mainstream" comedy acts (men) who nod to this "peeving" of young teens. Specifically I can remember "jokes" about dads taking their kids to see Harry potter just to "see how Hermione was getting on".
I look at ppl and think I can appreciate a pretty person without thinking about sex. But that doesn't mean that these men were looking in an innocent way.

Some of the girls at the local secondary school near us look practically pornographic , think Britney spears video . They are 11 -18 , i have seen a car bump into the one in front because the driver was too busy oggling one of the girls butt cheeks and pants which were clearly on display

Leering is not just a look when you notice an attractive person. And if it was ingrained then all men would do t. Why can some manage not to leer and others can't help it?

Some women are so grateful that they are looked at, at all, aren't they? Hence the "suck it up" opinions on this thread. Thus confirming the niggling feeling within me that there are some real devil's handmaiden's out there who choose to live in a bubble of "naivete." I'm still laughing (mirthlessly) at the "Grown men wouldn't openly leer at a child" comments on here. Some people are choosing to deliberately misread the OP's comment about leering and saying "passing glance" (yes SUGARHUT, I'm "looking" at you). Some are trying very hard to interpret leering as if one is gazing upon a Michelangelo. Bloody hell, I've seen sane, good looking men leer after "older" women who have obviously had a hard life.....beauty, or lack of it, has nothing to do with the ENTITLED gaze of an onlooker.
P.s A glance is a reflex, a quick thing. Leering is a look that if noticed by the target, one can see the leering idiots cylinders clicking, leaving no room for misinterpretation as to what the look may possibly mean.

I think as a Mum, it is absolutely obvious when someone is perving over your daughter rather than just looking at them and thinking "Gosh what a good looking human being".
I have male friends who have commented to me on my daughters' looks in a "Wow she has grown up gorgeous" sort of way. It is not at all the same as being leered at.

My DS19 and DD17 went to a festival in the summer. There was a stag party camped next to them, late twentiesish, who made horrid, sexually suggestive remarks every time DD so much as moved. In the end, normally mild mannered DS went over and angrily asked them if they were paedophiles. Not strictly appropriate but it was the only thing that shut them up. Men can be pretty vile.

Can we just make sure 'leer' is not just another word instead of 'noticed'?

My ds3 aged 13 is very good looking, and naturally gets a huge amount of attention. It's human nature to have a second look at someone who is extremely attactive. My friends comment on his looks, but I don't think theyr're pervy or 'leering' middle aged women.

Unless you are absolutely certain, I think YABU

It certainly isn't the norm in all cultures that men openly stare at young girls or women. In my husband's Eastern European culture, I remarked on this recently, because even staying in a seaside resort with girls wandering around in bikinis and cut off shorts, men didn't stare at them in the obvious and upsetting way they do in the UK (and in other cultures, not saying it is just a UK thing).

I sometimes see hot guys, but I don't openly stare at them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable or others around me would notice, nor when I am out with my husband, I look away and think 'wow'!

Of course this is not natural, I found it really nice to be somewhere this summer where women still look attractive and dress up but doing so doesn't mean they automatically become objects to be stared at, commented on and leered over.

If a man leered to the point that i noticed, i would find that extremely inappropriate too.
Leering at a woman should be subtle.
Openly leering at such a young girl would make me feel quite unsettled.

Some of the girls at the local secondary school near us look practically pornographic , think Britney spears video . They are 11 -18 , i have seen a car bump into the one in front because the driver was too busy oggling one of the girls butt cheeks and pants which were clearly on display sad

So what, if you go on the beach in a nice resort there will be 100's of girls in bikinis and thongs and showing their bodies- should this give men the right to make them feel uncomfortable for getting a tan and having a swim.

It is possible to admire a lovely face or lovely body briefly and in a way that doesn't upset the owner- here in the UK, cat-calling, loud obvious remarks and general leering is considered perfectly normal and the women's fault for wearing revealing clothing:(

Nothing wrong with teaching our girl children to say "Fuck you". As shy and polite as some will obviously be, if they internalise this phrase enough, they will at least develop a range of "bitch" looks that will leave a creep no room for misinterpretation as to the intention of his perceived target. My daughter is stunning ( we all say that. I call her the phoenix that rose from the ashes), but she does allow for more facial expressions than "compliant" to rest upon her visage. I remember being told to "fix my face" by too many female relatives. The message being that I wouldn't be "looked at" otherwise.

I agree, it is vile when men are leering at your beautiful young DD.

This happened a lot to DD on holiday abroad this year. I told her to say "You know, I'm only 14?" in an assertive way - it had them scuttling away instantly.

I have the same with my own DD too - she's only 11 but I've noticed get worse from 9 onwards, like yours she looks old for her age & is beautiful, but it's scary & its only going to get worse,

wherever we go she has older boys desperately trying to get her attention, sometimes blatantly trying to chat her up & like you say, you can't help but notice that even grown men do look

Nothing we can do to stop it, but I totally get why it winds you up, best we can do is teach our girls its just part of life how to deal with it - mines a bit of ball breaker already

Lets face it these days girls can be just as preditory too, though less likely from grown women with young boys she says having just met a late middle aged acquaintances new beau, complete with bum fluff on his chin

So what are the strategies we should teach our daughters, bearing in mind that male attitudes are not going to change over night? I grew up in a tiny village a long time ago, and I was rather a plain Jane so I have little or no experience of this. DD1 is a confident soul who shrugs this sort of stuff aside, but DD2 is very rattled by it.

DS1 is 13 and often has his friends coming over to ours. A couple of them are very smart, good looking lads.

I have said to DP on occasion- " Gosh- he will break some hearts when he is older"

isnt this a bit the same? Or am I a raging perve??

Again, I had the most attention from men in the street when I was 12-15.
I found it very uncomfortable and I dread my DD facing the same.

Do you crowd them into a corner Tiredemma? Have a good stare at their trouser regions? Badger them for their name and phone number? If not I think you're okay.

No. Haven't done that.

Tired I see my brothers mates and wonder how they can be in high school when they look so young. I don't know if its because my brother looks so old. They all dress the same though

My (totally gorgeous!!) 14 son gets women looking at him..
Hes 6ft and looks alot older. I just ignore it he's totally oblivious to it as well

closingeveryhour I agree with you- it's socially sanctioned for even much older men to stare/leer/not bother to hide their interest. It is performative for them, they do it more if other men are around- it's a demonstration of the heterosexuality and masculinity and it's pathetic.

Tiredemma if your staring is likely to result in the boy in question feeling uncomfortable and intimidated, yes, you are too much. If he's unlikely to have noticed because you have made every effort to be interested and polite but not show him you think he's really hot (as I have to do with my hot male colleages!) then that's ok.

I can't believe how many people are trying to compare noticing someone is really pretty and deserving of a quick glance, and the open leering that goes on towards even young girls in our society.