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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's not UR to ask what ethnicity someone is?

206 replies

FlobberWobber · 12/10/2013 20:33

To me, it's not rude, I lived abroad for 10 years and was often asked where I came from, it was just asked out of genuine interest.

DD is mixed race, my other DC aren't and I'm often asked in a round about way, " Oh wow, they look so different..." then I have to explain. I don't really mind. Yesterday someone said they had been dying to ask me what ethnicity DD was but thought they may sound rude, I've heard similar things said, but to me it's not rude at all to ask, aibu?

OP posts:
Awomansworth · 13/10/2013 16:19

I think you know that is not what anyone is saying OP...

Incidentally you might want to get your dd's views on this as she gets older when she's asked the question a few times her views may differ.

We live in a small village in a predominantly white English part of the country and I've lost count of the times my DH has been asked where he comes from (he was born in the UK) and when he tells them London, he then gets "no, I mean originally"! Take it from me, it might be ok at first but get's fucking tiresome after a while.

Igloofornow · 13/10/2013 16:23

Curlew, please enlighten me - conversation goes:

Me: Hi I'm igloo, what's your name?
awaits answer
Me: lovely to meet you, what's your DC called, how old are they?
Awaits answer
Me: great blah, blah.. so are you from here?
Yes/no I'm from...
Me: ahh, I've only been here 5 months, everyone seems friendly blah blah, do you want a cuppa?

so, should I only ask the white people this? Cause I'm find meeting new people hard enough without changing my small chat dependant on the race of the person I'm conversing with!

GoshAnneGorilla · 13/10/2013 16:27

Igloo - the key part would be "are you from round here?" Indicating the local area.

Then, presuming they said yes, or mentioned another part of the UK, not then asking

"but where are you really from/where are your family from/what's your ethnicity/what are you?"

It

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 13/10/2013 16:56

Agree to disagree, I wish I could do that with people who think it's okay to ask me dozens question, but I would be considered rude.

You could give them confidence to say no if people ask them things they do not wish to answer - whatever the question. That people have the right to privacy and may not wish to answer any question that pops into their head. That we have these resources called books and the internet filled with writings by people willing to answer their curiosities so they don't need to ask random people to be their teachers and that it is rather rude to presume that a person they just met wants to answer their questions. That other people are not there for their curiosity and amusement and that prying into people's personal lives isn't to be done lightly. To treasure themselves and to not let themselves be treated like walking encyclopedias for anyone who has an interest. That the systems tries to remove people's privacy, but that it should be respected and value our own when we feel it is needed for our own mental health. That we are too important to open ourselves to anyone who thinks they should get our time and energy, both are limited commodities that must be prioritized. No need to waste them for someone's questions if we do not want to.

And yes, that white privilege means that none of them will get the full human experience as the system is designed for some to be treated as more human than others and white stories and feelings tend to be considered both a priority and the universal experience and we must be careful to ensure we do not support such a harmful system and should be working to deconstruct it. That other people's experiences are different and a lot of that has to do with ethnicity and other personal facets because of the systems currently in place. And that it's fine to change their opinion when faced with new information, particularly from those with more direct experience of the situation than themselves.

I am proudly Metis, my children have learned the stories and traditions even when no one else around them has even heard of us, and will correct anyone who thinks they do or want to follow anything differently. I have children who will face adults and tell them they don't do Christmas because they get so many other traditions and having a child face bullying adult and children who leave her out because of her ethnicity and family, they face it openly in joys and in pain. When so many of their kinsman are hiding theirs for safety, they are being quite brave. That is my definition of being proud of their heritage, not being an open to discuss it with anyone who wants to talk about it, I want them to value themselves more than giving attention and energy to anyone who pays them attention.

Igloo - when I am asked that, I will say where I live now. Many accept that fine and we move back into the conversation as normal, it's those who go "oh, I know that's not a local accent, where are from? how often do you get to go back home? Does your family visit often? Your hat is so exotic, why do you wear that, do all your people wear those hats? Who are your people? What does Metis mean? Oh, I thought they mostly died and lived away in the woods on reservations - do you hate living in the city? I know your people like nature, how did you come to live here? Oh you have a degree? Is that a picture of your family? You're husband's White, does your family mind? How did his family react to you? Your name is a bit hard to say, you should change your name to [similar English name], you'll get farther in this business without that name."

And so on and so forth, this is practically verbatim a conversation I had with someone I'd known for about five minutes at a work-related course when the original topic was the new computer systems (Vista, yay). It was eventually stopped after she started talking about how bad it was I was then supporting my DH (who was a SAHP at the time) and that immigration should only let Christian immigrants in...

It's not really that hard to be polite, there are plenty of interesting topics that aren't ethnicity, personal background, religion, politics, and ones opinion on their family make-up. I find books a good topic for making friends.

SomethingOnce · 13/10/2013 17:03

Why would you assume everyone is able to read?

Sorry, I'm just trying to illustrate that it's not always easy to predict what will make others uncomfortable (people with limited literacy experience a lot of discomfort in a culture where literacy is considered the norm).

chibi · 13/10/2013 17:09

holy shit are you being serious

i think this thread has now moved beyond satire into farce

what about people who can't read indeed ffs

SomethingOnce · 13/10/2013 17:16

I was responding to Spork's last sentence.

I gather you are not interested in addressing the question I asked earlier, chibi?

Igloofornow · 13/10/2013 17:19

TheSpork, oh my goodness no I would never ask someone where they are really from!! Or a million questions related to said origin. I have a foreign surname and get lots of questions about it but generally from people who know me quite well - as you don't tend to ask someone's surname on first meeting I suppose.

I don't get the whole where are you really from I only ask if people are from around as a conversation starter ie do you know the local area, what's on blah blah. I'm not interested in their parentage, history unless they are friends and its come up in conversation.

themaltesefalcon · 13/10/2013 17:23

Surely it's better for people to ask than to make incorrect assumptions and risk offence? It's not a good idea to assume an Azeri is an Armenian, or an Indian is a Pakistani, or a New Zealander is an Australian, frinstance. It can, rightly or wrongly, cause a bit of grief.

I never mind if people ask where I am from. It's much better than their assuming I'm someone I'm not.

chibi · 13/10/2013 17:24

soz

today is a day where i feel entitled to not answer the questions of strangers

i am sure normal service will resume tomorrow

themaltesefalcon · 13/10/2013 17:26

PaperSeagull, I often get asked if I'm Jewish here in Russia, because of my name (which is a bit of a giveaway). I know full well the history of anti-Semitism here (the word "pogrom' came from Russian, of course) and yet I have never once felt it was a loaded question. It's just people making conversation.

Willshome · 13/10/2013 17:28

As a white English person living (at the time) in Tottenham, I was asked by a (I don't know, not English-accented) woman where I came from. "Down there," I pointed. "No, originally." "Edmonton," I replied. "No, what country?"

It happens. Whatever ethnicity you are.

SomethingOnce · 13/10/2013 17:30

Probably best to avoid discussion forums then, chibi.

Igloofornow · 13/10/2013 17:32

Actually curlew, do you really think we should speak to people based on the colour of their skin, really?

White person - I'm from London, America, India, timbuctoo
Black person - I'm from London, America, India, timbuctoo
Me, do you like it here, blah blah. I don't ask where are you from - who does?

chibi · 13/10/2013 17:34

it is a discussion forum = everybody has to answer anyone's questions, always

oh LOL

how could i possibly owe you anything? really?

chibi · 13/10/2013 17:36

lord save me from people and their perfectly innocent totally natural questions and curiosity that must be satisfied no.matter.what

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 13/10/2013 17:40

Igloo - asking if you live locally is a completely different ballpark to asking someone their ethnicity or "where they're from". I doubt most people on here would do what random lady did, but it's a taste of the situation that makes the whole issue quite draining.

Something once - I mentioned books more than once, so you should be more specific, it originally read to me - and obviously to others - that you were questioning people being able to educate themselves by reading on a board one has to read or use text-to-audio equipment to access which does seem farcical. I was giving the option to Igloo who wanted ways to break the ice not as a general statement. Books and movies are both easy topics that can help you find what a person is like without delving into their history. I personally am not a big movie buff so books would be easier for me. As someone who has been asked repeatedly about celebrating Christmas (which I do not do but the vast majority do without thinking that others don't) these issues of not thinking about it happen, but comparing illiteracy - which is an issue that I don't think you'd find many proud of - to my ethnicity is quite problematic on a several levels.

And this isn't about trying to predict what will make others uncomfortable, it's that common topics of conversation in groups one know well - religion, politics, money, ethnicity, personal history - are not open to just anyone we meet because they feel curious. And people shouldn't expect others to be open source or to have available the energy required to do so at all times just because they are in public. I love discussing all of the above, I'm not going to bring it up to a lady I just met at a training day or the guy I just met at the park. I mean, I choose the time I discuss these things with my husband carefully to ensure we're both up for it, they can be very draining, I don't get why it's surprising that I don't want to do that with a stranger.

SomethingOnce · 13/10/2013 17:46

Sorry, since my post directly followed the one in which you wrote 'I find books a good topic for making friends' right at the end, I thought it followed.

SomethingOnce · 13/10/2013 17:47

And my point was that books would not be an easy topic for a person with limited literacy, and that may not be apparent when using it as a conversation starter.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 13/10/2013 17:49

I also said in the same post that people can educate themselves with books and the internet.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 13/10/2013 17:51

That line was a tossout line to Igloo, who the point was, on things other than ethnicity to talk about to make it softer. I am sure Igloo would use her discretion, I was giving one of thousands of examples of things to talk about other than ethnicity. The idea that out of all the things I said the last line what you're focusing on is a bit odd.

SomethingOnce · 13/10/2013 18:07

I don't think it's odd, I was just drawing out the assumption of literacy in what you wrote.

I think it's relevant in a discussion about assumptions, prejudices etc.

You obviously don't think that's worth taking on board so I'll leave it there.

Igloofornow · 13/10/2013 18:26

The spoke, I know what you mean but would be a bit odd if I said hi I'm igloo, what books do you like Wink

PaperSeagull · 13/10/2013 18:30

themaltesefalcon, I'm glad to hear you haven't encountered an anti-Semitic subtext in this question. Seriously, I am glad. (I don't want my statement to sound sarcastic!) However, both DH and I have experienced that very disturbing subtext and worse. Alas, anti-Semitism is alive and well in Russia (and elsewhere, of course).

TheBigJessie · 13/10/2013 18:48

I have veered from trying to be understanding, to declaring some members beyond help, as I read through this thread.

If you cannot appreciate that it is worse to asked "are you gay" as someone who is actually gay, than as someone straight, you are, I say again, beyond help.

I don't particularly care on a personal level if anyone asks me, because my sexuality is the most common kind, and totally and utterly seen as the norm.

If I was actually gay/bisexual (or especially indeed transgender), I would care very much about nosey parkers asking me in public, because each time it could mean I would have to choose between lying about my sexuality or increasing my risk of encountering physical attack, bullying, or other discrimination.

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