To think the school need to support my child

[mychildisnotnaughty]

DS turned 4 at the end of July so started in reception as one of the youngest. Hes been struggling and today I was called in because he ran out of the hall in a PE lesson then when the TA tried to get him back in, he had a tantrum. He then had to wear his PE kit the rest of the day as he refused to get changed and he had no top on as he refused to wear his t shirt.

They said he won't line up either and runs off, also had a tantrum when going to lunch. Also keeps trying to run off at the end of the day.

At the moment I feel he is not being supported, they just keep trying to put him in time out but this doesn't work, I said he needs ignoring but they said that isn't possible. To me it's all down to him being a summer born.

They also complained he's been annoying the school rabbit, this really upset me as at home he loves animals.

AIBU to think they need to do more to help than ring me, as he behaves fine at home so I can't do anything.

DS2 is a PITA child but almost only in groups. Give him 1-to-1 attention & he is transformed into near angel. I've met a few like that.

He has several siblings at home so we see plenty of his worst behaviour, but if he were only one at home I might be baffled, too, by school difficulties. I wonder how many kids are like that.

I have definitely seen an increase in challenging behaviour over the last ten years. The biggest difference is those increasing number of parents who do not support the school rules.

Uniform, hairstyles, jewellery, lunchboxes - these are small daily breaches of the rules. We see threads time and again on mn about parents bemoaning the 'lunchbox police', etc.

Then there are those parents who don't want to hear that their child has been rude to staff, or unkind to other children and try to excuse it by saying - he's only 5, 6, 7 < insert age >

More serious are those children who cause consistent, low level disruption by being noisy and/or messing about in class. More and more teaching time is given over to behaviour management.

In the past, if the teacher had to speak with a parent, the child would be worried about what their mum would say. Now, so often, parents just say, well school have dealt with it, instead of reinforcing at home.

Parents are more than happy to praise and reward their children when they receive good news from school but when it's a complaint from the teacher, many parents turn their backs on the school and refuse to address or, sometimes, even acknowledge it. That's the biggest change I've seen in schools.

It's a shame because, ultimately, it's the children themselves that are held back. They become unhappy when things don't go their way, they fall out with their friends and are not very resilient to knock backs. They are not very well prepared for real life.

Like I said, the school only have them for a few years but they have to live with themselves their whole life.

I agree, Fairenuff. DD2 was put on the 'pitstop' this week. Knowing DD2 as I do, I would say that she was a victim of her own quirky logic. I suspect she has SN, but so far she is 'under the radar' at school.

The situation is this:

DD2 is meant to be tidying up.
DD2 sees the fruit bowl. The fruit bowl holds fruit, and each child can take a piece of fruit for break time.
DD2 is hungry.
The fruit bowl has one apple left.
DD2 thinks 'If no-one else wants that apple, I could eat it.'
DD2 takes the apple.
DD2 starts to eat the apple.
Teacher sees DD2.
Teacher removes apple.
Teacher tells DD2 off.
Teacher tells DD2 to put herself on the pitstop.

My choices are:

Think 'Oh the poor darling, she has a quirky mind. How mean of the teacher.'

OR

Think 'Oh the poor darling, she has a quirky mind. I must make sure she understands why her teacher thought (rightly!) that she was stealing. I must make sure she doesn't do it again.'

I choose the second one. Because at that moment it doesn't matter why she thought she should take the apple. She shouldn't have done. She needs to understand why her teacher was cross, and why she should never do it again.

Later, I can deal with the fact that she may get herself into trouble with her logic in a different way. My hope is that the teacher will start to see a pattern. A child who isn't a trouble maker, but makes some very odd decisions (because her logic is very odd).

It doesn't do a child any good to be allowed to continue making the same mistake over and over again. Somehow, they need to be taught how to do something different.

My Granny never agreed with the teachers (nuns). Proper Bohemian. Let mum and all her sisters play cricket in their cellar. The whole school had to pray for my aunt. They all used to do each other's homework and run a book on the results.

Must have worked they were pretty highly educated, well after spending a period of sunbathing on office roofs instead of doing their work in the 60s...

I adored my Granny.

Fairenuff We had a teacher who all the children adored. Didn't report anyone to anyone, was just so interesting. He walked into the room and silence fell to see what he would say next.....we hung on his every word.
No sanctions were needed. Laugh a minute. I remember him stopping us one day and telling us to "MAN THE WINDOWS AND DOORS" because somebody.... "FARTED!!!" Chemistry was never so interesting.

Nice anecdotes sturdy but I'm not sure what your point is?

I don't know about 10 years ago - I've only had children for 10 years, but in the 70's when I was in primary school:

• Never mind worrying about restraining children, any problem child was sent to the headmaster where they would get the slipper.
• Never mind children doing what they were told, women did what they were told too as equal opportunities legislation hadn't yet been passed and shows like 'Mind your language' and 'Black and White Minstrels' to say nothing of 'Jim'll Fix it' were on TV.

We have all changed since then, so it isn't surprising that children have changed.

However, there are still 30 children in a class, and demands on children and teachers have increased. When I was in reception we didn't attend whole school assembly, lunch was strictly monitored by dinner ladies (eat every last bit of gristle) and there were no school trips. The school day was predictable and calm. There was no computer flickering in the corner, no SATS, no world book day, no science week, no world week, no sports week and no sports day until further up the school.

On the other hand, although I definitely received a good education and had brilliant teachers, I am not sure that everybody in my class benefited in the same way as dyslexia and other difficulties weren't on anybody's radar (but never mind, send lazy children to the headmaster for the slipper, and if all else failed there were plenty of manual jobs).

Maybe I am lucky to have only had experience of schools where children who struggle do have SEN, and other children fit in and parents support the school. However, I think society has changed, but maybe schools haven't changed enough, which isn't surprising as that would take an awful lot of money.

I think the point of sturdy's posts is that there was no golden age of compliant children.

Yep merry we come from a long line....

Well educated though, numerous 1st Class Degrees and post grad qualifications, prizes etc.

It's not the children that are the problem necessarily, merry, it's the parents. So quick to complain, so slow to support. So many parents think that turning a blind eye to certain behaviour is ok. It's not. It is failing the children.

And it's their own children that they are failing. I don't understand why they do it. Take a favourite toy off a child as a consequence of their behaviour? Oh no! Shock, horror. You can't do that...

There is a woman on another 'strike' thread at the moment saying 'My 5 year old won't be happy at having to go to school when his older brother is having the day off. How can I explain it to him, he won't understand. I am livid with the teachers'.

What? This is a five year old child!!

Tell him that he will do as he's told by his mother because she is the adult in charge, or blame the teachers for striking?

When children feel that the adults are not in control, they try to take control themselves. This is why they want to do things their way. Why they don't like to follow instructions. They have learned, very early, that they cannot rely on adults. That is the sad face of today's young children in school and it's too much for them. No wonder they break down

Each one of us from non-auspicious beginnings. My mother used to wee in the Wendy House wipe each day at school because the teacher told her they weren't allowed to go to the toilet in lesson time. My father was sent home regularly, in reception, by himself, for soiling his pants, my teacher told my mother I was 'dull'. My Dad became a successful engineer, my mother worked for one of the largest newspaper groups in the 80s. My cousin was put in remedial classes only to do all her qualifications after she left home and became Head of Youth Services for quite a significant area.

Teachers don't know everything...

Fairenuff I suggest you stop relying on the parents to make your life easier and take control yourself.

It's like telling tales, get a grip woman!

I don't go running to the teachers if my child is naughty at home! I deal with it.

Thanks sturdy, a classic example of head in the sand parenting.

"I don't go running to the teachers if my child is naughty at home! I deal with it."

Not all parents do, though. Lots ask me to sort out problems like refusing to go to bed, eat certain foods, hitting their baby sister or getting dressed in the morning. I do try to be supportive, but can't say I'm much help.

How I read Fairenuff's post is that it is a team effort; school and parents, if it is really going to work. What bugs me is a parent telling their child in front of me they wouldn't get a comic at Tescos tonight because they x, y & z-ed at school, then following morning find out from a TA who witnessed it the child had a tantrum in the shop so got one.

Fairenuff if a person doesn't want to be prepared to seriously consider a parent's advice, they shouldn't ask for it.

The OP's advice, whilst not entirely appropriate, did have some merit. Pushing a confrontation can escalate conflict and there may be fallout, the OP avoided that. Perhaps she was used to spotting triggers and played down mistakes in order to move on.

Complaining, without seriously considering advice or taking proactive steps to prevent negative occurrences yourself, is pointless. If this is all that happens, as a matter of course, it will become like white noise to parents.

My head is certainly not in the sand Fairenuff, I just have the ability to think and make decisions for myself, informed ones at that.

I very much doubt the school are complaining to the OP without 'taking proactive steps to prevent negative occurrences'. I expect they are informing the parent that there is an ongoing problem which she, as the parent, has a right to know.

What merit did the OP's advice have? Schools cannot ignore disruptive or dangerous behaviour.

Head in the sand parenting is when you don't want to hear anything negative.

You told me to stop telling tales. Same thing isn't it. You don't want to hear it.

I call it the courage of my convictions.

I don't understand your stance, sturdy. If your child was causing disruption in the classroom or putting themselves in a dangerous position, would you not want the school to tell you?

Informing is different from complaining. I would expect a " x has happened. We did x to deal with this. We will keep you informed of further incidences, but do not worry, we have x, x and x at our disposal. We are keeping our eye out for any problems. Please tell us if you deal with this is a particular way at home or have anything else to add."

I would expect this at the end of the day, or at a meeting if more serious, not a blow by blow account over the phone over every small misdemeanour. I would only expect a call if my child was very distressed, or if something very serious had happened.

Some parents feel like you sturdyoak, others demand a blow by blow and are most upset and complain we are not involving them in their child's education if we don't. That is where school's struggle; respond in the wrong way to the wrong parent and get it in the neck!

Then it looks as though you would be happy with the OPs school, sturdy because that is what they have done. Schools will inform parents and ask for their support but, of course, it is not always forthcoming.

It is sad, though because, with the best will in the world, schools cannot fill that parenting role which all children so desperately need, and deserve.

I would certainly not want school to attempt to parent.