It's a penis, no?

[MamyPoko]

So, I'm drying my son (nearly 2) after his bath. He grabs his penis, and I say (helpfully) "that's your penis." DH, nearby, counters "that's your pipi, DS." I say, "it's his pipi, but it's also his penis." DH tells me, "people don't like it if you use the proper word"

I look blank. He uses the word penis in relation to his own equipment, so I'm assuming he means people don't like you using the proper terms in relation to small children. I ask for clarification, as to what people, when. He doesn't know, but is adamant (and, apparently, "vagina" is worse). He invokes the BBC guidelines, and claims you wouldn't say penis or vagina on daytime TV unless it was "editorially relevant". Naming a penis a penis is relevant, no?

(I think by "people", he might mean his mother)

Now, I've done sex education with young people with disabilities, and it's really important they learn to use anatomically correct words. It gives them an adult vocabulary which is important for keeping safe, for starting sexual relationships, and for accessing healthcare. It's not right to infantalise them.

DH says it is right to infantalise DS, because he's an infant. He then said, "Go on, ask your Mumsnet"

MY Mumsnet.

Ambiguity can be a problem in court.
But that is not the whole story by a long chalk.
Giving evidence is not the same asa keeping safe.
And even in the event of collecting evidence different words and descriptions are useful for different ages.
An abuser does not get set free because a child uses the word "foof" rather than "vagina".
Not to say that children shouldn't learn these words. Just that it's not "wrong" to use familiar words. Especially if that encourages discussion about bodies and health and differences etc.

I hear what you are saying littlewhitebag fair one.

I have mentioned albeit briefly to my son that his willy is called a penis but I doubt he would remember the real name.

I suppose we should use the correct terms, but in our house we have widgets, nadgers, tuppences and bum cheeks. Ds who is 9 has recently learned cock and balls from his older cousin, but I confess I'm not keen.
I am 38 and have never in my life referred to my vagina as my vagina, nor have I ever heard my husband refer to his essentials by their correct anatomical names. Funnily enough I don't stub my toe and shout "I've bruised my phalanges" I shout "bastardy twat fucker I've stubbed my bloody toe"

So vagina is the walls and all that?

Exactly twatta well put.

I was trying to think of a context in which I could use other parts of the body in which we dont use the correct terminology but I was drawing blanks, despite knowing we do it.

You hit the nail on the head.

But toe is the term you'd use to describe an issue with that part to your GP....isn't vagina the same? I mean you wouldn't describe a problem with your foof, minnie, twinkle or tuppence to a doctor, surely?

I wouldn't say 'willy' is an ambiguous term.

'Winkie' could mean penis, bum, bum hole, depending on which family you are talking to.

Actually "vulva" refers only to the labia (usually Majorca, ignoring the poor old minora) it omits the clitoris and, as you say, ignores the vagina. So in order to teach a child to accurately describe her "Minnie" one needs to teach her at least 3 words. Why not call it a fanny? We all know what she means?
anyway. You seem to have great intentions so I can't really argue that it's useful for children to learn the "correct" terms for their "bits" and I see where you're coming from, tbh. I just don't believe that a 2 yo neccessarily needs to call his penis a penis if it's ok at home to call it a willy.

We always say penis.

I was an only child so my parents never felt the need to teach me a baby name for an organ I didn't possess, it was always penis.

In 8 years of parenting a girl I've never had reason to converse about her vagina or vulva so she knows the proper words but never uses them or any other term for it tbh. Urethra has been mentioned a few times in 'where does pee come out' type convos.

I'd rather they use correct terms than babyfied nonsense.

"Actually your anal sphincter is not your bottom. It's your arse hole bottom is the bit you sit on"

So no-one ever says that poo comes out of their bottom?

I know that the anal sphincter and the gluteus maximus are separate muscles. But I would say bottom for both should I need to mention them in ordinary conversation.

By the time the DC are in KS2, they'll know an enormous range of terms for body parts (probably learned in the playground) and choose which one to use with great effect and aplomb, whichever is used at home.

That's exactly why I use 'willy' and 'fanny' because its all encompassing, unambiguous words that will continue to be used throughout life.

And in the process of gathering evidence from small children (awful subject obviously) words are not the only currency. As you will know. I'm sure.

I think that by the time that my children are of an age that they would be discussing a problem with their penis, vagina, vulva, testicles etc without me being present that they will have learned the correct anatomical names for them, because they will presumably be over 16, or if, god forbid they are under 16 and at the local sexual health centre, I'm quite sure the staff there will have heard every possible nickname for the relevant body part and be perfectly able to understand where the problem is.

Besides. Those individuals involved in gathering evidence from children are expected to possess a set of skills that mean they are not entirely reliant on a child using a medical term for their anus.

No words are not the only 'currency' (?) but it makes life a lot easier if time isn't spent establishing what part of the body a 'Minnie' is.

Good point twattybollocks
And superb name btw

filee777 I get the feeling you and i do the same job. I don't think anyone can possibly understand how complex it is trying to get a small child to explain where exactly they are talking about without putting words in their mouth.

'The staff understanding' is not the same as a court being absolutely certain which area has been touched though.

definitely correct words.

We tend to use willy, but I make sure we use correct terms too.

I have found it much harder with the girls as there isn't a word for the whole shabang, so vagina feels a bit specific.

mrsR someone in yours sons nursery assigned the name bobbin to his penis? I would report this, that person had no place working with children. They are either very stupid or very abusive.

I don't do the same job (yet) I was a child who had to sit through hours of what can only be described as interrogation to work out exactly what I was referring to in order for a charge to be made.

I am training to be a social worker though.

Blimey Filee777, sorry to hear that. I hope any child i speak to never feels like they are being interrogated. Good luck with the social work qualification. Sounds like CP might be a good area for you to work in eventually.

We use both the anatomical terms with DDs (3 and 5 yo) and 'bits'. Bits refers to anything within knickers as a general term.

So Vulva, vagina, bottom (but also anus). We talk about rectum and colon too when it comes up in context like bad gurgles before diarrhoea.

I'm watching our for them using 'cute' terms and would be asking where they had heard it. I doubt that if someone was grooming them they would refer to anatomy so starkly.

Plus you can't actually go wrong with anatomical terms. If someone complained about the words used by my young children I would just point out that they were correct.

Children cannot see their vagina like they can see a penis, they see the vulva. If you want to use ' correct ' terms rather than baby ones then at least use the correct terms!

Saying that, its Willy and front bottom or privates in this house but i have told them the proper names too.

Just thinking I have absolutely no words to describe my vagina / vulva etc. There was no occasions that I even discussed this with my DM or DSis and I have honestly never had a conversation with anyone about them and that's even after having gave birth 3 times. I'm a mother of sons though so maybe that makes the difference.