to not want to speak to this person again despite him being my hisband's best friend?

[catlady123]

Have namechanged for this, I usually post in a different part of MN. I wanted people’s views on something that has upset me terribly and whether I am being unreasonable, as my husband thinks.

My husband has a best friend who is/was also a good friend of mine. He was over for dinner last night. I mentioned to him in the course of conversation that I am struggling emotionally with the fact that my fragile, old cat has become quite incontinent and I am wondering whether she should be put down at some point as she is soiling the house several times a day and I have a toddler. I have had this cat for over 17 years, through thick and thin in my life and this would be huge thing for me. I mentioned that I had thought of possible asking the vet to come to the house to do the deed without distressing her in any way, but also that I am far from coming to a decision on this yet.

His comment was that I should not do that but should take her a few hours drive away from home and then just let her out into the wild and “let nature take its course”. I was so shocked by this that I could not speak for a while, I then became very upset and refused to have dinner with him, going upstairs to bed instead. I later told my husband that I do not want anything to do with this friend again and that animal cruelty is something I cannot tolerate. I was absolutely shocked that the friend could think that I would take my beloved old cat and do this to her.

My husband’s view was that I was very rude to his friend, that I am being ridiculous, and that “everyone is entitled to their opinion”, although he himself would not actually do this to the cat. This caused a huge fight which has gone on much of the night. I don’t know what to say now. My husband tells me his friend will apologise for what he said. I can’t see that an apology would make any difference, he still thought that such cruelty was OK and that I would do something like this, how can apology for having expressed the opinion change that?

I do not think you overreacted. Pets are dearly loved members of the family. If someone said that to me I would never see them in the same light again. Good idea to ask the vet to call when the time comes, we did that when our dear old cat was put to sleep., much nicer than carting the poor thing off to the vet's. You sound lovely.

I think you are right to speak to the friend OP.

With regard to the cat soiling and your toddler, stair gates and Vanish are your friends! Our cats aren't incontinent but they can be tricky little buggers wee things and we have had a few accidents, DD has learnt to keep out of the way when cleaning up and to avoid damp spots until they're dry.

Op i dont blame you. Thats a disgusting thing to say especially considering how ill your cat is.
It may have just been a throw away comment however he should have been more sensitive.
Our society seems to believe as soon as animals becomes a bit ill or a bother then we just throw them away.

Dont blame you for not wanting to speak to him, he sounds thoughtless.

That's okay, guys. I don't think I would enjoy your company either.

My policy would have eliminated the need for this thread, though. Everyone would be quite clear where they stand, and there would be no fake apologies ensuing.

I think "it's nature's way" for people to be called on it when they say fucking stupid things. As such, I call people on animal cruelty, and general nastiness.

P.S. Have either of you ever found an abandoned starving pet? Because I have and paid the vet bills to boot. She was in a horrific condition...

Anyone who suggests doing such a thing deserves to be educated on the consequences. At length, until it gets into their thick heads.

You policy would have potentially ended the friendship, TheBigJessie

If taking offence at well-meaning but ill-though out suggestions and alienating people is your bag then yes, your policy would have worked. I like to keep my friends though.

Well done on finding an abandoned pet. I never have, although we fed next doors cat at uni, but I guess your argument must be more valid because you have.

Ignorant people can have very odd ideas about 'nature'.

I think that people's attitude to animals tells you a lot about their capacity for empathy generally, so who they are. So, i completely understand this incident would change your attitude towards this 'friend' very deeply.

He was also demonstrating poor social skills, and again a lack of empathy, by saying this out loud to someone so obviously emotionally attached to their cat and likely to be upset. Whether born of ignorance or sick 'humour', he should have recognised this was not a sympathetic thing to say and checked himself.

I would have challenged him on it, pointed out pets aren't 'natural', nature is nasty and cruel and your dear pet would have suffered horribly. He may not have realised that and thought she'd have curled up under a bush and died peacefully. I don't believe that is what he meant - why drive far away? So a distressed animal can't find it's way home. He meant for the cat to be predated, or starve. I would have given him the opportunity to explain himself. He might have backtracked, acknowledged your points, or demonstrated further lack of empathy by justifying his view, so telling you he thinks the concept of pets and people's attachment to them are ridiculous.

Then you could have been utterly disgusted, or understood the reasons for his ignorance.

Funking hell Jesse you sound like mega hard work. I can just see the judge laughing his head off at your divorce papers.

Let him apologise OP and put it to bed..He was being insensitive.

Sorry to hear about your animal though.. maybe a trip to the vets for some advice. I doubt that an animal like a cat will be happy if it's soiling everywhere.

I think I'd be very much at home in your company, TheBigJessie. The knobhead who advocated cruelty to the OP's cat and the posters who want to keep their friends at any cost? Not so much.

Yes, because this has kept the friendship in fine fettle, hasn't it? I'm really not convinced that a simple, (tone to be selected according to taste) explanation of what would happen to an abandoned 17-year-old cat would have damaged it more. (In my experience, people generally say, "oh my gosh, I had no idea. I would never do that now" and you don't even have pursue the discussion for any longer. If only aggressive homophobes were as easy to pursuade.)

I don't want friendships that I have to keep by biting my tongue about cruelty to animals or humans. You do? Well, that is an opinion you are entitled to hold.

I do not want to know at night I have taken the easy road for personal comfort.

Does having rescued an abandoned pet make my view more valid? You had it nearly right. Knowledge makes positions more valid. I, and various other people, have more knowledge than the OP's prat of a friend.

Would you like me to go into details about how this animal was at 50% of normal adult body weight? No? Well, that's what happens when ill/old, abandoned pets don't find a "next-door neighbour" in time.

Why would divorce papers be necessary, chick darling?

Are you assuming that I couldn't possibly have found a husband with a similar moral outlook? Men vary just as much in moral outlook as women do.

I would add two thoughts though. One is that 'cruelty humour' about people too, is commonplace, far more amongst men IME. It doesn't mean they'd do it, it's a cartoonish take on the world, a 'what if pain and death weren't real (at least not for me) and we could play with lives in absurd ways without consequence.' He may have thought you'd get his 'humour'. Stupid but possible.

Is it possible he was ridiculing your emotional outpouring a little? Saying 'hey, we're here for an amiable meal and you've gone off the deep end about a personal problem. Show some restraint, I'm not your agony aunt, lets get back to having a pleasant evening'?

I don't think there is anything to suggest a dinner talking about a sickly incontinent cat over dinner with a sensitive and emotional co-host was a pleasant evening at any point, lottiegarbanzo

Thank you, Sara

Well, the world's changing. My grandmother used to deliberately get her cat pregnant, and then choose her favourite kitten. And drown the rest. She worked in a middle-class profession and was known amongst her friends as a cat-lover. These days, she wouldn't be able to tell her work colleagues about doing that!

I know you're upset about your cat, and that's understandable, but your behaviour sounds like it was utterly ridiculous. You need to get a grip tbh. If my DH behaved like that towards one of my friends I'd be hideously embarrassed and pretty angry with him.

And to the poster saying the OP should think about leaving her husband, you are a loon.

I was referring to your first post. Man do you give a test paper to your friends if they've upset you and you had their lives for it? [Wink]

I don't think anyone suggested that the OP should think about leaving her husband, Tricycletops, did they?

I gleaned that from jesses first post as well.

I think the point here, Jessie, is that this is hardly an indicator of animal cruelty.

Chick Test paper? No, I explain why I disagree with particular viewpoints. When I was an insecure teenager, I did the "polite" changing-of-subject and the feeling awkward, and just not seeing people things.

And it was shit. It doesn't maintain friendships. It means you don't like them any more, but aren't saying so, and aren't giving them a chance to know why. Friendships just peter out, leaving the offending party feeling a bit confused.

Now, I'm an adult and I realise that I am as entitled to argue back as people are to just open their mouths and let nasty things fall out, and morally more in the right.

Is speaking up nice at the time? Most of the time, absolutely not. Having a dirty wound cleaned isn't nice either. But they both heal cleanly without festering.

I feel a hell of a lot worse about the time I seemingly preserved a friendship despite nasty remarks than the times I objected and explained why, even when the latter caused an unpleasant atmosphere.

Just to make it clear, if it matters, we had not sat down to dinner and then I started getting emotional about a cat. We were about to do so when I discovered cat poo in the dining room so had to explaina nd delay the dinner. I was of course embarrassed and I explained that the old cat had had an accident (again) and that yes, I had thought that we have have to think about putting her to sleep at some point. I mentioned that the vet had said they could come out to the house when the time came and that I was mulling this over. That is when he said what he said. I only became upset and went upstairs after that.

curlew it is cruelty both morally, and I think also legally. I can't find the animal welfare acts from here, but soimeone will doubtless come along and either correct or confirm this.

The facts are that you are taking a domesticated pet, which you have accepted as your responsibility, and you are dumping it somewhere, with no regard or provision for its care. Adult domesticated animals are not well known for their ability to adapt. When they are old and/or ill, it's even worse.

It's a death sentence, but one that may be carried out via hypothermia, (depending on weather conditions), dehydration, starvation or predation.

Allowing something in your care to suffer is cruelty.

Given a choice of death I would go for morphine over being abandoned in the woods.

PL hattyjack.

Jesse you can stand up for what you believe in without throwing a huge paddy and cut somebody off if they don't share your point of view or seeing it as a dumping offence if your bloke doesn't see it your way.

That is hard work... If you're like that all of the time I would picture people crossing the road when they see you.

I suspect however that the picture you painted in your first post isn't that accurate and in that case I'll let you off.

*PMSL hattyjack

Stupid phone.