to want my DCs to be the super popular, "alpha" children at school

[dirtyface]

partly inspired by the thread about do you buy your kids certain stuff so they can fit in (but not a thread about a thread i promise)

...it just got me thinking. i REALLY want my dcs to not just "fit in" (although i will be happy with that of course) but to be actively, super popular

they are only 4 (dd) and 7 (ds) at the moment so in year 1 and year 4 so just starting out really

but i think it starts young. tbh i can already see in DS's class who the in crowd are :o and luckily ds is friends with some of them but seems a bit on the periphery iyswim. popularity at junior school breeds confidence and a "popular reputation" and a casual expectation that people will like them which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy i think teachers tend to prefer the popular ones as well IME

it then IMO tends leads to success as an adult even if they dont do particularly well at school. for example, DH was very popular at school and although he left before even taking his GCSE's he has done very well at work, and always tends to be very popular where he has worked and ends up getting promoted a lot

so, those of you who have very popular DCs, whats their secret? and am a bit asking this, but is it / has it been anything you do as a mum / parent to help them along a bit?

oh i don't want them to be bullies jamie :(

and of course i want them to be happy, and be themselves. i think that would come with being popular though.

i know it comes from my own school days, i was not popular at all. i was a misfit and classed as ugly and a geek and got beaten up on several occasions. all i wanted was to be popular.

i am 33 now and still worry about what people think of me and find it hard to trust people. i also ended up getting bullied at work as well in my early 20's, probably because i still had the look of "come pick on me" ...my confidence has got better over the years but not sure the memories of school will ever leave me fully

for example when i was at school back in the mists of time the mst popular kids wore whatever the fuck they wanted etc cos no one would say anything negative to them. but if any lesser mortals had worn anything "out there" they would be instantly derided for it

I think it changes through the stages. And a child who is popular at primary might find things changing by the time they get to university or work.

Some started to wane at the end of secondary and they do cling onto those school years more than they should.

Better to blossom and improve as you get older. Then no slide downhill which is probably a bit depressing.

Not all go downhill of course.

Nothing wrong with admitting what most parents want at some level... As long as you aren't communicating this to them in a way which puts them under a lot of pressure to confirm to this.

Also worth remembering that the popular kids may not be the brightest, the most emotionally robust and those best able to stand up for themselves and what they believe in. And that sometimes you can get lost in those big crowds of popular kids and struggle to find true friendship in the sea of conformity.

So just be a little careful what you wish for...

The ideal is surely well-liked but not too popular. The trouble with popularity is that it can be a bit of a drug. Over time that leads to someone's sense of worth being bestowed from others, rather than coming from within. It makes the popular children very vulnerable to issues of rejection and failure. These are often the ones who sail through life at first and then lose it completely when something (often not even that significant) goes wrong. Throw in a relationship breakdown or a job loss and it can be catastrophic.

I think I disagree mrsterry which is unusual as I normally agree with what you say.

I think the risky behaviour kids are more tolerated than liked as they are a bit dangerous and likely to be bullies.

There were 4 group types when I was at school
The hard kids who smoked and were scary
The geeks who were made fun of
The popular group who weren't bullies even though the girls were quite bitchy
The blands not popular and not geeks just kind of in the middle.

I would hope my dc would be popular or bland... They seemed the happiest to me.

I think it's not being unpopular that's the issue. I was never popular, but always got along with everyone. I was and am very bright, top of the class, the only child in my year who went to Oxbridge but not nerdy. I wasn't in the in groups but could act a bit, sing a bit, play sport a bit, and I painted and drew. That meant i had a wide circle of friends but no really popular groups. As an adult I am the same and very sucessful. I was also born confident if that makes sense. I am not really but I can project it well and my parents gave me a sense of self worth and justice which meant I didn't seem to stand out. My sister was desperately unhappy as she is equally bright, but just never fit in at all. She is very sucessful now.

However before this turns into even more of a boast than it is already it didn't stop me having a disabled child who can't walk, and really never will fit in as a result. I just want him to be accepted for what he is. At the moment that is fine, but I don't expect him to be alpha (he will never be able to run for example so he's not going to be picked for the football team) but I want him to be accepted for what he is. I am trying to instill the confidence in him, but not sure I know how.

Popular groups can be a PITA for all but the queen bee - and to be a teen queen bee one generally has to be so controlling and vicious that I would never want my child to be like that.

I was in the 'in crowd' at school. Until I grew up a bit. Then I was resolutely not popular. I still went to Oxbridge and have a fabulous job with lots of promotions.

IMHO popularity is a red herring and can go any direction in later life. I'd far rather have an independent, confident, happy, self-sufficient child, and I'd be much more sure of those characteristics as a marker of future success.

Do you think though, that as a result of not being popular yourself you are projecting too much onto popularity? Being popular at school doesn't magically make you successful or sort your life out for you.

My American brother-in-law was an unpopular geek at school. He now has a mega, mega career and lovely family while the popular guy who excelled at sports and was top dog is in a modest job in their home town. Not that top dog is necessarily any less happy, just saying that his popularity didn't correlate to some amazing arc of success throughout life. And the lack of it doesn't prefigure a life of misery either.

It is a bollocking myth that the popular kids have it easier.

My DD2, now yr 6, was well in with the popular crowd. The quarrels and arguments within that group have been like nothing I could have imagined, far worse that the issues my middle of the road DD1 suffered and that's saying something.

All kids have their own issues and insecurities, popularity is nothing but a facade, a position to be maintained against all odds and its hard.

This last year my DD2 has made a conscious effort to distance herself from the popular group, staying friends but not too involved, and she has been so much happier. She watches the bitching and jostling for position from the periphery, falling out with nobody.

My DD1 is in with the geeks and she is so settled and happy in her own skin. A lovely bunch of mates she's got, and I can only hope my DD2 has the same luck with friends as she gets older.

Hmm, not convinced that being very popular at primary school leads to high levels of self confidence. Some (not all) of the most alpha kids in DD1's primary year are now, going into year 11, among the ones trying a bit too hard to be cool, fit in with the right crowd. In some cases this has led to some highly risky behaviour, as MrsTP says.

Some (not all) of the less cool, less popular children have really come into their own in their teens - they are less bothered about keeping in with the in-crowd, so have found like-minded friends and have blossomed as individuals, seem very secure and don't feel the need to do anything that they are uncomfortable with.

Encourage your children to be themselves and to be good, loyal friends.

I think you know you are projecting your insecurities and very real bullying experience onto your children, but this won't help them at all ( I completely sympathise though and was quite anxious about this stuff when mine started school).

But- what will help is having a mum in their corner who won't stand for any bullying and will be up at the school if there's any trouble, a mum who is happy for children to come around and is welcoming to any friends, and a mum who is a good listener so when friends break up/there's trouble, as there always is with children, you can talk things through and they don't feel alone.

Your children may be nothing like you at school, really do try not to say anything to them about this stuff, just see how it goes and you may relax over time.

And- you may have been unpopular at school, but you ended up with a super popular guy. It's not set in stone destiny you know.

The super popular kids when I were at school were also not very nice, with lots of in group politics and slyness going on. I was glad to be well away from them and just have a few very good friends.

I want DS to be happy, and to like himself as an individual rather than for how others view his worth.

My DD is not one of the popular children at her high school, neither are any of her peers. Her and her peers are all in the top sets, only one of the really popular children is. I know which I'd prefer.

Not all popular kids are nasty twats. I think some of you are projecting your own school days on this.

My son went to a small primary with just one class per year group so it was really easy to spot the popular set. There was nothing wrong with any of them. They were nice kids not bullies. But the one thing they all had in common was that they had an established friendship group from before the start of school. They didn't start primary needing to make friends as they were already a group.
Once they left primary and the pool of children got larger they tended to stay in their established group where my son made new friends.

oh and i would NEVER communicate this to them

i try to boost them up all the time by giving them lots and lots of praise even for little things

i never really had that as a child and i don't think it helped matters

i think DS is very good looking which i hope will help but i am most probably biased :o

Luckily the ones who were good academically were popular at my school. Not picked on, well not after streaming anyway.

Ds1's school is the same too, no one gets a bad time for trying to do well which is good.

So popularity is close to being good at stuff.

The super popular ones in my school were the bullies. That went for primary and secondary school. I was not unpopular, I had a good group of friends and mixed with a few of the popular girls but I was never an alpha female whatsoever. I think I have done well in life. Ive not achieved everything I set out to, but im only early twenties so tjeres still plenty of time.

Dont push them to be popilar just beacause you think it will bring sucess. Thats not the case. Obviously you dont want them to be totally oitvast or bullied.....but is itnot just better to be themselves?

To be the popular ones they will have to always have the latest trends and technology. They will grow up quicker than they need to.

Wouldnt teaxhing them to be happy in their own skin be better? By all means make sure they fit in, but pushing them would cause alot of issues.

Id much rather my ds not be the most popular kid. Hes sociable, bloody good looking ( utterly biased) and rather strange....and I will teach him that is exavtly the way he should be. And that tjere will always be people who will not like it, but that does not matyer because everyone is different and everyone likes different things .

Well I think everyone want their kids to be liked and included. I don't think they have to be universally popular though. That sounds like quite hard work for the majority of people.

The people in life I know who are popular in the way you describe are so because it comes effortlessly to them, often they are just as nice to everyone, they just have a certain something.

The kids I see in DS's class who are "popular" are actually little shits that happily exclude on whim, and encourage their satellites to follow suit. That's not what I want for DS. Rather he had a smaller supportive group where kindness, consideration, humour and camaraderie prevail.

What the hell?!?! Just be happy with the lpvely kids you have!

Not all popular children are bullies. Not at all.

But I am quite struck that a few definitely aren't the kindest children. More the coolest

One of my DC is very popular. He's invited to every birthday party, etc and always has been since reception. Both children and staff like him, because he's just lovely, kind, helpful, considerate. He's not academic, but I know life will treat him well, because he just rolls with what is thrown at him.

Nobody actually likes the "popular" kids, or rather the ones people think are popular, but I don't think that kind of "popular" kicks in until high school.

Some people do have the gift of the gab. I have a friend who left school with three GCSEs and has literally talked his way into a high flying career. He's what I would describe as a popular person.

Most of the in crowd and popular ones of my youth have not done well at all.

I think trading on good looks, which was high in my schools mandate for the in crowd, does you little favours as an adult.

I found school very hard and I don't want that for my DCs and I think bullying can affect you for a long time but providing they have a niche and friends then that's the main thing.

And- you may have been unpopular at school, but you ended up with a super popular guy. It's not set in stone destiny you know

i know :o i sometimes think that. little geeky me gets the popular guy

although he is 10 years older than me, didnt go to the same school anyway, and by the time we met i had somewhat blossomed shall we say ;)

In primary being good at football is a bit of a Golden Ticket to popularity

I am more interested in giving my DCs the tools to be self confident and happy...and all the other traits pp have mentioned such as kind, fair, trustowrthy. Popularity can change ,so OP that may not protect them from being bullied. Self confidence is a better aim in my opinion. Plus giving your children tools to stop any bullying behavoous instantly. My DD1 (7yo) has already used "Did you mean to be so unkind" to a school friend after several mean comments. The mean coments stopped.