to want my DCs to be the super popular, "alpha" children at school

[dirtyface]

partly inspired by the thread about do you buy your kids certain stuff so they can fit in (but not a thread about a thread i promise)

...it just got me thinking. i REALLY want my dcs to not just "fit in" (although i will be happy with that of course) but to be actively, super popular

they are only 4 (dd) and 7 (ds) at the moment so in year 1 and year 4 so just starting out really

but i think it starts young. tbh i can already see in DS's class who the in crowd are :o and luckily ds is friends with some of them but seems a bit on the periphery iyswim. popularity at junior school breeds confidence and a "popular reputation" and a casual expectation that people will like them which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy i think teachers tend to prefer the popular ones as well IME

it then IMO tends leads to success as an adult even if they dont do particularly well at school. for example, DH was very popular at school and although he left before even taking his GCSE's he has done very well at work, and always tends to be very popular where he has worked and ends up getting promoted a lot

so, those of you who have very popular DCs, whats their secret? and am a bit asking this, but is it / has it been anything you do as a mum / parent to help them along a bit?

I have only read the first couple of pages so not sure if someone has said already...

I understand your idea of wanting school/life to be easy for your children but the truth is real life is not like that - the best thing you can do for your children is support them but raise them to be resilient - something they may not learn if their formative years are too easy.

It is good to struggle a bit and learn from failure. Kids of today are heading into a very uncertain world with little or no job security - so we should in fact hope that they do struggle a bit in school and learn to navigate their own way in life - it will help them find more success as adults.

MrsHod,

I am not as experienced a parent as you, having much smaller children. However, to my 4 year old, I ask who his friends are and ask him if he would like to have them around. I really don't care who they are, though, as long as they are real friends and nice to one another.

It is not a question of knowing or not knowing and of course we chat together. It is when parents try to influence their childrens' friends that I would describe as over investment (or, worse, seek to form "alpha" and exclusive parent groups).

I am a bit by what being popular means and how it changes through school.

Surely what we all want is for our DC to be happy and confident and have a group of supportive and reliable friends who allow/enable our DC to be who they are.

DD says that the group of "popular" teens in her year group are not really friends at all because they can't trust each other and are constantly trying to prove their position in the group.

I didn't mean to appear patronising larry and I hope your little boy grows up unaffected by all this. Having girls I'm not sure how it manifests itself among the boys. Dd says there were some boys on her gcse classes who were intimidating and arrogant. They definitely thought of themselves as superior but I think that was because they had very successful parents, lived in big houses and were obviously the rich kids in a state school. Put them in one of the many private schools here and I think they would have been much smaller fish and might have had to make more of an effort to be likeable.

I cannot see why being 'shy and retiring' is such an awful thing. I hope we aren't becoming like the US, where being anything other than outgoing seems to be regarded as pathological. The world needs some quieter folk, you know, to go off and write books and music and think about things and be happy in their own heads. It would be a boring old world if everyone was a party animal.

I read or heard somewhere that the best thing to do with a shy child is to find another shy child for them to play with.

I was thinking about this, as my daughter is paralysed with shyness and I'd hate her to be side-lined later (she's only two). I'd feel safer as a parent if she was the most popular kid in the class - because I'd know I wasn't going to experience the pain of her loneliness. But as a parent taking responsibility for what's best for her, I'd like her to be herself. Sometimes kids are popular because they're confident, active and happy. If that's the way it goes for her, I'd be delighted. But if she was to be popular because of something to do with class or pleasing other people, I know I would have failed her in a big way. Happiness doesn't come from being popular. Nor does good character. Compassion, curiosity, self-expression, self-discipline - I set my heart on this for her, not only because it's morally right, but because it's meaningful. In this life, you are not going to find fulfilment in being the cutest or the richest. Personal satisfaction is derived primarily in how well we can love ourselves and others. That has nothing to do with being a cool kid. I consider that it's my job to think about this while my daughter gets on with the business of being a child.

I think you want your kids to be popular because it's what you want for them, for reasons of your own. I don't feel you have a right to obsess over it, though. There are so many other things you need to be thinking about. As do your kids. Don't burden them with this. Why do they have to be first when they can be themselves? That's a wonderful thing.

I?m of the ?it takes all sorts? persuasion. There are very many ways to succeed in life and nothing you achieve at school socially or academically guarantees anything for later, though of course I?d like my own DS to be popular same as I?d like him to be an academic success etc. But none of those things are the be-all and end-all. Different children have different strengths.

The danger about just wanting your child to be ?alpha? and ?super popular? is that children who are too eager to be super-popular or to join the ?in? crowd are very vulnerable to being rejected and bullied or to bullying other children to try to keep their own place in the ?in? crowd. And if you see being popular as ?the? most important thing then realistically, how would you stop yourself communicating that to them? Of course your beliefs are going to show. You don?t have to say it in so many words, your anxiety and disappointment would show on your face and even in the questions you ask.

I try to concentrate on ?be kind and be yourself?. If your son is having real difficulties (rather than just being contentedly on the edge of the group!) then you might invest in a copy of ?The Unwritten Rules of Friendship? - which also talks about some of the worries of being a parent for those of us who were bullied or excluded ourselves as children.

Oh and if your DS has some good friends and if he is happy with where he is socially, then he?s doing fine and you don?t need to worry!

thebody have never heard the "its not over until you are dead" philosophy before, but really like it, thanks!

only trouble is, you don't know when you'll be dead.

Even the popular can't escape the grim reaper.

[no skull symbol yet MNHQ?]

Not sure if this has been linked to on this thread yet but this is a great book which explains why quiet introverted people are just as fab as the extroverts:

Quiet: the Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking

"So essentially, kids take after their parents hence lots of people on here saying "I was fairly nerdy and my DC are too."

I humbly submit that's not how it's worked at all for me or DC. But nice theory if it gives comfort. My parents were and are social butterflies. I was quiet and didn't mix easily, spent most of my childhood being openly labeled "antisocial" by my parents. My dad never understood me until he went on a Myers-Brigg workshop.

I think there is definitrely a place in the world for introverts and extroverts.

But please please please let's not fall into the trap of saying that writers/musicans etc fall into the first category!!!!

What is popular?

If you mean that you want your children to feel at ease in their peer group and confident that they are accepted socially, then you are reasonable and normal.

If popular means being dominant and bossy and always the focus of everything, then yabu.
It's all about your individual child's perspective. It's about being accepted by the group you want to be in. And achieving in the areas you are drawn to.

It's a bit of a fallacy to think that introverts are all quiet or that extroverts can't be shy or find social interaction difficult. We are all shaped by our experiences as well as our inner natures.

The other thing to bear in mind is that so much is shaped by group dynamics. A child can be happy, outgoing and popular in one situation and a social leper in another, a mean 'alpha' with a particular group and a much nicer person when interacting with others. As can adults of course.

Both my children were wonderfully outgoing when they were younger, I used to look at them with amazement. They'd make friends in minutes and seemed comfortable wherever they went. Roll that forward a few years and a lot of bumps along the way and ds is now fairly standoffish and very very careful about friendships and dd although naturally friendly has developed what might be thought of as a strong cynical streak. I think that she is more resilient as a result and he is probably more fragile.

"It's all about your individual child's perspective. It's about being accepted by the group you want to be in. And achieving in the areas you are drawn to."

Agreed, but it is also about giving your child the tools to achieve it and then letting them get on with it by themselves. Micro management of children is not, in general, a good idea. If you look at the parenting boards here vs the boards posted by people about their own parents, you can see that those parents who are the most respected by adult children are those who provided a calm supportive environment and that those who micromanaged are often referred to as "toxic" and fail to maintain a good relationship into adulthood.

DD was supershy until about 7yo; DS was sociable & made friends with everyone. They are now preteen-teen age & have nearly opposite personalities.

but please please please let's not fall into the trap of saying that writers/musicans etc fall into the first category!!!!

Not all of them by any means! The old 'introvert/extrovert' stereotypes are out of date. I know several who are hugely outgoing and love conferences, talks, gatherings, parties, etc. And there was nothing shy about Dickens. But there is a tendency to think that there is something 'wrong' with children who don't want to join in with the pack. I notice this at school, where I still help out with Year Ones. Some of them like time out by themselves at break, just watching everyone else. TAs and teachers sometimes worry that they're feeling left out, and it is great that they are so concerned, but sometimes I think these children just need a bit of time alone to recharge.

Good for you OP for identifying this desire, and knowing where it came from, and for thrashing this out online rather than acting it out in your parenting.

I totally sympathise as I've had a running battle with myself for years. Like you, I have a kid inside me who still thinks all will be well if I'm in the in-crowd.

What I think you're already aware of is that you really want them to have high self-esteem with all the resilience that entails, and your grownup self knows that doesn't come from popularity. Rather, popularity is a likely recurring symptom of high self-esteem.

I wouldnt worry about "shy" children. My sister was incredibly shy, particularly through primary school, wouldn't talk to adults, would cry on play dates and need to be picked up early etc. My parents were worried. She achieved a First at university, happily married with great kids and now has a much coveted job in the Arts which involves managing a large team of people and schmoozing the great and the good (she socialises through her work with Royalty, politicians and Hollywood A list). She is very low key about it though. No way would my parents have foreseen how she would end up when she was a weepy 8 year old too scared to go to Brownies!

she's still popular because she has self confidence and is happy in her own skin

This is just what we want for our children, Uglyfuckling.

OP you can't engineer your kids' popularity or personalities. Of my 4 children, one was very popular at school, always at the centre of everything, everyone wanted to be friends with him, etc. It's just his personality that attracts people and that's still the case. The other 3 less so but they got along fine in their own less high-profile ways. They are all very different as people, The very popular son has struggled with the world of work as he has been labouring under the mistaken belief that his charm and popularity would carry him through - it hasn't and he's had a big shock. He's had a hard time finding a job to suit him and his life since uni has been a big shock to him. The more 'ordinary' children have found it easier out in the real world because they have been in the habit of making more effort. So don't fret about - CHILL and let them be lovely them.

Not read whole thread but...

Surely the needs at school end up with nicer lives. The popular kids from my school live what I think are pretty dull lives. I was nerdy (but funny so never bullied) and reaped the rewards by moving to uni age 18 and then travelling the world and having a perceived glamorous job.