to tell xp that his finances are not my problem

[thatisall]

Where to start?
XP and separated almost 7 years ago on weird terms (he was a cheat and a manipulative one) we remained uncomfortable friends if that makes sense. After several months of 'friendship' for dd sake but no maintenance/support at all, I contacted the CSA.

He was incensed that he had to pay 200 towards her every month. His payments have not been reassessed since then.

A few weeks ago whilst speaking to the CSA about a missing payment (he had paid, they had not passed it on) they suggested we check a few details were still correct as it had been so long. The fact that he changed jobs a few years ago was logged as a change.
When I say he changed jobs, he went from working in a call centre to something with what would now appear to be much better pay. I am confident, CONFIDENT that he told me he had already told the CSA.

Anyway today xp arrives to collect dd and 'wants a word'. It seems his pay has gone up dramatically and the CSA feel he may need to pay more and that as he is responsible for updating them he may have to pay the difference for the last 3 years.

XP asked me to tell them to stop the reassessment and agree to him paying an extra few quid per month (20 was his suggestion) directly to me without CSA involvement and to forget any debt that may have been accrued. He then implied that if I allowed the CSA to properly reassess him then the debt may be so large that he would struggle to be able to afford to see dd and then she would suffer and all because 'i want his money'.

This tells me that he knows he has been underpaying and quite dramatically by the sound of it. I'm bit that XP is still trying to manipulate me or that he thinks he still can! For years he could get his way by saying 'just think of what that would do to dd' or 'for dd's sake' but really it would be for his sake.

I don't want dd to suffer or miss seeing her df but i refuse to believe that times would be so tough that he couldn't afford to see his child!? Or that the CSA would enforce payments that would cause that??

Anyway in a shock move even to me, I remained cool as a cucumber and said 'with all due respect, this isn't my problem'

Honestly this is so unlike me that he was visibly taken aback. He picked up the CSA letter, announced that he would speak to a legal person and left with dd.

I'm struggling to sleep now wondering if i am being cold, spiteful or even cruel. Am i causing problems where there don't need to be any? We could definitely use that extra money however much it is.
The fact that I can't sleep also makes me wonder whether I am once again being manipulated

Am I being unreasonable?

[Beastofburden]

YOur daughter is 11 so more than old enough to see through it if her father Makes money the issue about seeing her. She can just say, pay for the petrol out of all the money we use to spend on activities, I am happy just to come round and have a cup of tea.

[thatisall]

OMG!!!!

[thatisall]

UPDATE: CSA Just rang. He is claiming that he has had dd for 75 nights per year for the last three years and that he has had a room for her etc etc.
Also that he didn't change jobs at that time and has no pay slips to prove as previous company has gone out of business.

HE DOES NOT have my dd for 75 nights per year and was away for nine months last year!!
Ontop of that he has only just moved into his own home last week as he has been here there and everywhere with work and on the occasions when he does have her over night. (I'd say we're heading for 50 nights by the end of this year) she sleeps at his Mum's!!

He's dropping dd off this evening, I wonder if he'll say anything

[LookingThroughTheFog]

thatisall, do you have diary records of when he had her? It might be worth going through so you've got a full list ready and waiting.

[LookingThroughTheFog]

And poor you having to go through all this.

Yes it would be delightful if there were no bullies, liars or manipulators in the world. Yes it would be fantastic if you could look into a crystal ball and know exactly how each partner might act in the future.

But that's not reality, and I'm sorry you got caught with a manipulative liar.

[thatisall]

No, there are the odd ones on the calendar but not all.
CSA lady says that it doesn't count if it's not at his actual house so potentially it doesn't matter but I'll be keeping track going forward!

[ICanSeeTheSeaFromHere]

I would be digging out last years diary and making a note of the nights HE had her... nights at her gran's are not costing him.I think you may need this soon. His travel to collect her is his problem. What a charmer!

[thatisall]

Honestly, HE has only had her for these past two nights....all other times it has been at his Mums and oftentimes he would go out and she would watch dd

[Lweji]

He should have a contract with the new company, so CSA should be able to check with them.

And I'm surprised he hasn't kept tax forms or P60s or something.

He should be able to prove that he's had her for 75 nights.

Surely there will be messages or emails (if you don't keep them, I advise you to)

[ICanSeeTheSeaFromHere]

Sorry X post. Try to think back... the 9mths he was away for should help to make a list. Also what is his excuse for not seeing her most of September?

[LookingThroughTheFog]

Are CSA a government agency? Are there rules about them checking P60s and stuff? Because yes, I would have thought that their first phone call would be to his current employer, and their first question would be 'how long has he been working for you?' But I can see that would have DPA issues.

Definitely diarise from here on. I'm not sure how you'd go about proving that she was at her grans.

[thatisall]

Looking the fact that he hasn't actually had a 'home' until a few days ago? He hasn't had a residence as such to take her to, he's been living at his mums and at a residence in another county that she was never taken to, so if she wasn't at his Mum's he'd be hard pressed to prove where on Earth she was.

[thatisall]

ICan Work and a holiday. It was end of Aug/Sep. He is free this week but hasn't been free for the last 3 and won't be free for another 2 and then that weekend she's busy. So if I didn't change plans then....

[thatisall]

He's saying he has her for a couple pf weeks in the Summer, a week at Christmas..... he has her for three days at Christmas and I'd say a week - 2 weeks in the summer hols total, made up of the odd day or two days. That's me being generous.
I'd say all things consider, 52 nights per year is the MAX it could be, but not for last year though when he was away for 9 months.

[Dadisthelion]

It doesn't matter if he says 75 nights or 100.

The band for a reduction of 1/7 is 52-103 nights.

If he has less than 52 it's no reduction. More than 103 it would be 2/7 reduction.

[LookingThroughTheFog]

Well yes, that's definitely helpful, thatisall!

Please try to keep a clear head at drop off. I think the 'it's not my problem' comment was fair and justified. I think you should, as far as possible, avoid discussing it with him at all. Just say you're both working through CSA, and there's no point muddying the water with separate discussions.

Though I have to say, I am not an expert here. It just seems that if there's a history of manipulation to the extent that he can still make you panic and flustered, it's probably best to keep all conversations to a minimum and address everything through some sort of mediator.

[Lweji]

But that's the thing, if he hasn't worked at that job for that long, he should be able to produce a recent contract with them, and tax forms for the previous employer, even if they went out of business.
Or he should be able to produce a letter from his work confirming that he has only started working there more recently.

[niceguy2]

Personally if he says something later I'd just tell him that he's talking to the wrong person. The CSA is dealing with it so you suggest he speaks to them. There's no point talking to you and you certainly won't be lying to them on his behalf. So he can claim he looks after DD as many days as he likes but you'll be telling them the truth when they check with you.

And certainly don't be tempted to tell your ex anything about what you do/do not spend your money on. There's absolutely no need to justify what you spend your money on. Do you ask him what he spends his money on and why he can't afford the state mandated amount of child support?

[thatisall]

Flustered flustered flustered!! I'm actually quite offended by his claims to be honest. Just hoping and praying this isn't ring discussed infront of dd

[IneedAsockamnesty]

The csa have to rely on the same info that HMRC use. So its pretty much the case that if the tax man accepts it then csa have to but you don't even need to worry about this because you don't need to talk about it with him.

You already know he's a liar you already know he's manipulative and now you know he's attempting to commit fraud so just deal direct with the csa and not him.

From what I recall about the csa they will rely on him to provide requested info and will not actually ask hmrc ect unless it goes to a fraud investigation. They can but they won't.they could be much more helpful when it comes to an employed person ( my experience is based on a self employed one committing massive tax fraud and diverting income).

His own place is also a very lose term it pretty much means anywhere he is living. So staying at parents for the weekend whilst you live elsewhere would not count unless you would have the child at yours if you were not visiting type thing. but if you were actually living with your parents and not maintaining other accommodation (with in uk) it would count because you live there.

My ex also tried to pull the I have dc loads one when he didn't he only had him overnight 24 nights a year think he was trying to claim he had him something like 180 nights. Afair if you say how often he actually does and he says otherwise they will ask him to prove your wrong not the other way round.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Oh and he will be talking about it in front of dd and making snide comments designed to make you look bad because that's what people like him do, the only thing you can do is make sure you don't do the same.

[thatisall]

Well he was talking about me and she did hear it all. Apparently I'm a fuvking retard and if I want more money then I should get a better job. Also I shouldn't mess with people who are more intelligent than I am.
Thank goodness my dd chose to tell me. She was quite upset. Have just had to explain things to her bless her. Told her not to be angry with her df, he'll calm down, things will et sorted and everything will get back to normal.
I promised her I wouldn't tell him she eavesdropped so sadly I can't address it all with him. Probably for the best

[Earthworms]

I have nothing to add to the thread, but Tension love your nn.

wont you come now open the bid before too long.

Sorry. As you were.

[Earthworms]

Thatisall.

What an arse.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]