to tell xp that his finances are not my problem

[thatisall]

Where to start?
XP and separated almost 7 years ago on weird terms (he was a cheat and a manipulative one) we remained uncomfortable friends if that makes sense. After several months of 'friendship' for dd sake but no maintenance/support at all, I contacted the CSA.

He was incensed that he had to pay 200 towards her every month. His payments have not been reassessed since then.

A few weeks ago whilst speaking to the CSA about a missing payment (he had paid, they had not passed it on) they suggested we check a few details were still correct as it had been so long. The fact that he changed jobs a few years ago was logged as a change.
When I say he changed jobs, he went from working in a call centre to something with what would now appear to be much better pay. I am confident, CONFIDENT that he told me he had already told the CSA.

Anyway today xp arrives to collect dd and 'wants a word'. It seems his pay has gone up dramatically and the CSA feel he may need to pay more and that as he is responsible for updating them he may have to pay the difference for the last 3 years.

XP asked me to tell them to stop the reassessment and agree to him paying an extra few quid per month (20 was his suggestion) directly to me without CSA involvement and to forget any debt that may have been accrued. He then implied that if I allowed the CSA to properly reassess him then the debt may be so large that he would struggle to be able to afford to see dd and then she would suffer and all because 'i want his money'.

This tells me that he knows he has been underpaying and quite dramatically by the sound of it. I'm bit that XP is still trying to manipulate me or that he thinks he still can! For years he could get his way by saying 'just think of what that would do to dd' or 'for dd's sake' but really it would be for his sake.

I don't want dd to suffer or miss seeing her df but i refuse to believe that times would be so tough that he couldn't afford to see his child!? Or that the CSA would enforce payments that would cause that??

Anyway in a shock move even to me, I remained cool as a cucumber and said 'with all due respect, this isn't my problem'

Honestly this is so unlike me that he was visibly taken aback. He picked up the CSA letter, announced that he would speak to a legal person and left with dd.

I'm struggling to sleep now wondering if i am being cold, spiteful or even cruel. Am i causing problems where there don't need to be any? We could definitely use that extra money however much it is.
The fact that I can't sleep also makes me wonder whether I am once again being manipulated

Am I being unreasonable?

[redexpat]

Excellent news! Have been lurking.

[Retroformica]

He can always elongate his mortgage term (25 to 30 years) if he is that skint

[ChasedByBees]

Glad to hear about the CSA decision!

[thatisall]

Update!
Dd has declined to visit her dd next weekend but agreed to see him the weekend after as he's bought tickets for something.
I think she's waiting for some sign from me that all this is over and sorted. Which I may be able to give her soon because...
CSA have rejected his claim that've had shared care ie has dd overnight twice a week :-/ and have reassessed him but backdated to Jan 2011 not 2010.
So he owes me a couple of thousand pounds, only they couldn't tell him this morning because guess what, he hasn't given them an up to date telephone number!!

I'm still seething that he called me a fuvking retard in dd hearing and although I had been feeling sorry for him, that dwindled with the 'money grabbing whore will end up with less from me when I've finished with her' comment changed all that.
I'm sure he will be in touch shortly to argue about it all bit once that's over with we can hopefully go back to being calm and cool again.
Thanks for all the support :-)

[ICanSeeTheSeaFromHere]

Your poor DD. You are being very reasonable throughout all this and your DD can see that... her rat of a father is sadly just showing his true colours. I figured it was Friday... and you deserve the wine!!!

[CSIJanner]

Having no experience of this, but am I being completely stupid in thinking that he may not have payslips it if his company was to the letter, his earnings and contributions would be on the inland revenue's records?

He is a complete tosspot BTW - hope your daughter feels better soon. It's shit thing to hear. And eavesdropping doesn't count if the tosspot is shouting.

[Lweji]

Such men dig their own graves.

Of course your DD would realise at some point (shame that it was sooner rather than later) that he is a twat, is horrid to you and doesn't really love her.

Even my 8 year old would see through him, let alone an 11 year old! She's getting to an age where she will be able to choose whether to see him or not and that is potentially his loss.

I wouldn't bad mouth him, but I wouldn't try to defend him or force her to see him.

Don't mention anything to him, and if you must, send a text or e-mail asking him to confirm if and when he's taking her before the 22nd.

Even if he manages to pay less through deceit, he's still a dick and a bad father because he's taking it from his child.

Even though I do think he thinks he is more clever than he is.

[thatisall]

Thanks for the wine lol
Things are not particularly ok. Dd is very upset about what she overheard xp saying. Now believe that xp doesn't care about her and is a bad person for being so horrid about me.

She's even made comments that suggest that she doesn't want up see him. I'm avoiding asking the question straight up incase I inadvertently suggest it to her iygwim?

She's def with him on the 22nd but there was a suggestion of him seeing her for a day in between then and now and I can't remember which day. I can't bring myself to call him. I've sworn to dd that I won't hell him that she eavesdropped and in worried that if he starts being horrid I'll get upset and confront him with the fact that he called me a fuvking retard and said that I'm not intelligent enough to realise that he has ways and means of ensuring that I end up with less money not more. Oh and the fact that d was so upset after hearing him that she didn't speak to him until lunchtime the next day...and he didn't notice!!
Dd is just really upset about it all :-(

[ICanSeeTheSeaFromHere]

Hope things are OK

[thatisall]

He left my dd at the door when he dropped her off yesterday, i suspect i wont be hearing much from him unless things go his way

[FiftyShadesofGreyMatter]

I would only correspond with him by email or text and keep them all.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Sorry OP - He's a charmer eh? I think he needs only look in the mirror to find someone who is a bit 'challenged' in the IQ dept OP. Its a shame he's not bright enough to realise that the only damage he's caused there is to his own relationship with his DD. Sad that she's had to be exposed to that but I'm sure she'll get through her upset with understanding and reassurance from you.

Let's hope the CSA are 'on point' in this case and he learns a valuable lesson in 'doing the right thing'. Eventually.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

[Earthworms]

Thatisall.

What an arse.

[Earthworms]

I have nothing to add to the thread, but Tension love your nn.

wont you come now open the bid before too long.

Sorry. As you were.

[thatisall]

Well he was talking about me and she did hear it all. Apparently I'm a fuvking retard and if I want more money then I should get a better job. Also I shouldn't mess with people who are more intelligent than I am.
Thank goodness my dd chose to tell me. She was quite upset. Have just had to explain things to her bless her. Told her not to be angry with her df, he'll calm down, things will et sorted and everything will get back to normal.
I promised her I wouldn't tell him she eavesdropped so sadly I can't address it all with him. Probably for the best

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Oh and he will be talking about it in front of dd and making snide comments designed to make you look bad because that's what people like him do, the only thing you can do is make sure you don't do the same.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

The csa have to rely on the same info that HMRC use. So its pretty much the case that if the tax man accepts it then csa have to but you don't even need to worry about this because you don't need to talk about it with him.

You already know he's a liar you already know he's manipulative and now you know he's attempting to commit fraud so just deal direct with the csa and not him.

From what I recall about the csa they will rely on him to provide requested info and will not actually ask hmrc ect unless it goes to a fraud investigation. They can but they won't.they could be much more helpful when it comes to an employed person ( my experience is based on a self employed one committing massive tax fraud and diverting income).

His own place is also a very lose term it pretty much means anywhere he is living. So staying at parents for the weekend whilst you live elsewhere would not count unless you would have the child at yours if you were not visiting type thing. but if you were actually living with your parents and not maintaining other accommodation (with in uk) it would count because you live there.

My ex also tried to pull the I have dc loads one when he didn't he only had him overnight 24 nights a year think he was trying to claim he had him something like 180 nights. Afair if you say how often he actually does and he says otherwise they will ask him to prove your wrong not the other way round.

[thatisall]

Flustered flustered flustered!! I'm actually quite offended by his claims to be honest. Just hoping and praying this isn't ring discussed infront of dd

[niceguy2]

Personally if he says something later I'd just tell him that he's talking to the wrong person. The CSA is dealing with it so you suggest he speaks to them. There's no point talking to you and you certainly won't be lying to them on his behalf. So he can claim he looks after DD as many days as he likes but you'll be telling them the truth when they check with you.

And certainly don't be tempted to tell your ex anything about what you do/do not spend your money on. There's absolutely no need to justify what you spend your money on. Do you ask him what he spends his money on and why he can't afford the state mandated amount of child support?

[Lweji]

But that's the thing, if he hasn't worked at that job for that long, he should be able to produce a recent contract with them, and tax forms for the previous employer, even if they went out of business.
Or he should be able to produce a letter from his work confirming that he has only started working there more recently.

[LookingThroughTheFog]

Well yes, that's definitely helpful, thatisall!

Please try to keep a clear head at drop off. I think the 'it's not my problem' comment was fair and justified. I think you should, as far as possible, avoid discussing it with him at all. Just say you're both working through CSA, and there's no point muddying the water with separate discussions.

Though I have to say, I am not an expert here. It just seems that if there's a history of manipulation to the extent that he can still make you panic and flustered, it's probably best to keep all conversations to a minimum and address everything through some sort of mediator.

[Dadisthelion]

It doesn't matter if he says 75 nights or 100.

The band for a reduction of 1/7 is 52-103 nights.

If he has less than 52 it's no reduction. More than 103 it would be 2/7 reduction.

[thatisall]

He's saying he has her for a couple pf weeks in the Summer, a week at Christmas..... he has her for three days at Christmas and I'd say a week - 2 weeks in the summer hols total, made up of the odd day or two days. That's me being generous.
I'd say all things consider, 52 nights per year is the MAX it could be, but not for last year though when he was away for 9 months.