to tell xp that his finances are not my problem

[thatisall]

Where to start?
XP and separated almost 7 years ago on weird terms (he was a cheat and a manipulative one) we remained uncomfortable friends if that makes sense. After several months of 'friendship' for dd sake but no maintenance/support at all, I contacted the CSA.

He was incensed that he had to pay 200 towards her every month. His payments have not been reassessed since then.

A few weeks ago whilst speaking to the CSA about a missing payment (he had paid, they had not passed it on) they suggested we check a few details were still correct as it had been so long. The fact that he changed jobs a few years ago was logged as a change.
When I say he changed jobs, he went from working in a call centre to something with what would now appear to be much better pay. I am confident, CONFIDENT that he told me he had already told the CSA.

Anyway today xp arrives to collect dd and 'wants a word'. It seems his pay has gone up dramatically and the CSA feel he may need to pay more and that as he is responsible for updating them he may have to pay the difference for the last 3 years.

XP asked me to tell them to stop the reassessment and agree to him paying an extra few quid per month (20 was his suggestion) directly to me without CSA involvement and to forget any debt that may have been accrued. He then implied that if I allowed the CSA to properly reassess him then the debt may be so large that he would struggle to be able to afford to see dd and then she would suffer and all because 'i want his money'.

This tells me that he knows he has been underpaying and quite dramatically by the sound of it. I'm bit that XP is still trying to manipulate me or that he thinks he still can! For years he could get his way by saying 'just think of what that would do to dd' or 'for dd's sake' but really it would be for his sake.

I don't want dd to suffer or miss seeing her df but i refuse to believe that times would be so tough that he couldn't afford to see his child!? Or that the CSA would enforce payments that would cause that??

Anyway in a shock move even to me, I remained cool as a cucumber and said 'with all due respect, this isn't my problem'

Honestly this is so unlike me that he was visibly taken aback. He picked up the CSA letter, announced that he would speak to a legal person and left with dd.

I'm struggling to sleep now wondering if i am being cold, spiteful or even cruel. Am i causing problems where there don't need to be any? We could definitely use that extra money however much it is.
The fact that I can't sleep also makes me wonder whether I am once again being manipulated

Am I being unreasonable?

[IneedAsockamnesty]

How is him being able to get his payments reduced because of his contact related travel when he is saying that increased payments will prevent him seeing his child not relevant to the op?

[hettienne]

I don't agree at all that costs should just be split equally - what if the resident parent earns £10k and the nrp earns £100k? The resident parent shoulders a greater financial burden and the child never sees the advantages of having a wealthy parent.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

If he did tell them he can use the appeal and tribunal service to reduce claw backs.

choc,you appear to have missed that its fraud if he didn't tell them and there are many circumstances that he would be liable for the arrears from the date of the change not just from the op's notification to them.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

BrokenSunglasses, if the ex here had been upfront with the OP over those 3 years and been paying those extra costs you listed, then he's still been stupid in doing that without also agreeing with the OP that they can sort finances out between them/cancel the claim through the CSA. He's still liable for that extra through the CSA while his salary was increased and they are involved. If he'd come to that agreement with the OP then he would more than likely be able to rely on the OP to help sort this situation out without the need to make threats over contact with their DD/manipulate the OP into helping him with his current problem.

Ultimately it's his crass attempt to manipulate the OP by using his DD to 'persuade' her to help, that makes me unsympathetic towards his plight. Harsh maybe. But he's not coming across too well in what I've read from the OP.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Brokensunglasses, that sounds a great agreement and fair to both parties. Both chose to have a child so both should share the financial burden equally. If one is a higher earner it may mean more treats or days out but the basics should be covered equally by both. The higher earner shouldnt subsidise the other parents lifestyle. The money is meant for the child.

If you choose to have a child with someone then hopefully you should be able to talk to them and agree on things or compromise at least on parenting aspects. There are some idiot PWC and NRP but most humans are decent. The CSA is often a tool for PWCs to use against NRP in a lot of cases the same as access is often viewed as "pay per view", mediation and informal agreements where both can communicate surely have to be better for the child.

[BrokenSunglasses]

Hettie, I see what you are saying, but one parent doesn't stop havng financial responsibility for their child just because their ex starts earring significantly more.

Two parents should work together to provide what is best for the child within their own capabilities, but the advantages of having a wealthier parent can come when a child is older and needs help to get through uni, or wants driving lessons, or needs help with a mortgage deposit. Or they can come through one parent being able to take the child on holiday when the other can't, or with one parent paying for music lessons or the like.

That doesn't mean that both parents don't have equal responsibility for paying for things like school shoes.

[BrokenSunglasses]

BrokenSunglasses, if the ex here had been upfront with the OP over those 3 years and been paying those extra costs you listed, then he's still been stupid in doing that without also agreeing with the OP that they can sort finances out between them/cancel the claim through the CSA.

Yes, maybe he has been stupid for that, but I don't think that should be the basis for the argument. Whether a parent has successfully negotiated the heap of shite that is the CSA is irrelevant to whether they have financially supported their child or not.

It may be that he made his mistake at the same time as being a Disney Dad who provides little in the way of necessities, and it sounds from the OPs posts like he could well be. But the OP hasn't yet said whether he buys things that the child needs on top of what he pays through the CSA, so we don't really know.

[ChocHobNob]

Socks, you were going into how unfair it is that the NRP gets all of these reductions and the RP doesn't and I personally didn't think that was relevant and not interested in getting into a "who is the CSA more biased towards?" argument.

Yes, he can claim a reduction for travel expenses. But the reduction is quite small. The first average of £15 a week (so £60 a month) is ignored and then there is a very small mileage allowance. It doesn't reflect the true costs associated with travelling and IF (a big if) the ex had no disposable income after living costs and CSA it wouldn't mean he necessarily could continue the travelling. Plus you are only allowed one reduction allowance ... travel OR overnights.

[RedHelenB]

CDhochobnob he would have known full well that he was liable for 15% of his salary & that if he got a job paying more, 15% would be more in actual monetary terms. So no sympathy for him BUT for the child.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Are you sure your correct there about the overnights and travel reduction?

A variation is assessed after overnights are taken into account.

My understanding (based on my ex's variation ) is that he can only have it applied for one journey each contact as overnights are also included in his reduction (or were when he was showing up)

I had to go to tribunal because as well as a reduction for travel he was also at the same time claiming for overnights he did not have. There is no doubt that he received both reductions with the travel being for one journey each week I have the paperwork in front of me now. The tribunal removed the overnights I could prove he did not have (reducing it to the bottom reduction group) but he retained the travel variation with a adjustment made for mileage as he had fibbed about the distance.


Oh and whilst I appreciate it could have read as if it was a woh poor pwc post that was not my intention. I was just pointing out that they can obtain them.

[ChocHobNob]

Sock I am almost absolutely sure that contact costs (travel costs) variation cannot be applied as well as a reduction for overnights. Unless it has been changed recently and I am unaware.

I am on my phone so cannot go searching through pages of child support regulations but a quick google search brought this up:-

" A variation for contact costs will only be considered in cases where shared care has not been applied to the maintenance calculation."

This was in a letter from the DWP to someone querying it in Feb 2013. Reply to question 5 in this link.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/147582/response/361375/attach/html/3/FOI%20Response.pdf.html

(Sorry if link not clicky)

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Mine was quite a few years ago

[thatisall]

Lots of comments overnight!

Xp did not inform CSa. I thought he told me he had which is why I didn't think twice about telling them but to be fair if they ask me a question, Im goo g to tell them the truth. Potentially the reason they are backdating 3 years is because I've told them previously?? I remember there being some issues with payments going missing when e was changing jobs, I could easily have said about the change.

Does he contribute to other stuff? Christmas, trips, uniform?
Not really. He buys dd's school shoes in September but like most children she tends to need a replacement mid year and I buy those. That is all.

He has a dp who also has a decent job and there are no other children involved.

Can't you just be adults? I tried that in the beginning and went 6 months with only £20 from him total! I think his neglecting to inform CSa and asking me to push aside the fact the owes dd money shows that we can't have a family arrangement. We get on for dd but there is a lot of bad bloo and a 3rd party helps to keep things amicable.

[ChocHobNob]

That hasn't changed as far as I'm aware. I can't be 100% sure though.

[Blueberryveryberry]

YADNBU.

He says you want 'his money'. Does he think you can feed and clothe your DD using air only?.
What a bastard!

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Thanks for clarifying OP. Sounds to me like your ex thought he was one step ahead, telling you that he had told the CSA, forgetting that they speak to you as we'll, and getting the information from you inadvertently instead. Given your recent update, I too am now in the boo fucking hoo camp. I'm pretty angry on your behalf that he thinks he can stoop so low as to try and manipulate you via your DD by threatening to stop seeing her because he thought he could get away with this. As my gran used to say, hell mend him.

[BrokenSunglasses]

In that case, he owes the arrears.

If he gives you grief, get together all the receipts and invoices you can relating to the things your dd needs or does and take copies. If you haven't got any to date, then start saving them now so that you can always have easy proof of the money being spent on your dd.

I email invoices to my ex for things like piano lessons, or if I get paper invoices or receipts I keep them and take a picture on my phone and text it to him. He's quite easy going and trusts that I'm asking for the right amount of money whenever I do, but I like to be able to show him where his money is going so that I can never be accused of taking his money for my own benefit.

[ihearsounds]

He should have thought about the consequences when he changed his job and couldn't be arsed to inform csa. Every letter from any government department has a line about informing them immediately about any change of circumstances. He made a decision to not do this because he was already annoyed about paying £200 a month, and begrudged paying any more.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Why would the OP need to collate receipts? No one receiving maintenance needs to justify what it's spent on. The OP's ex's situation doesn't affect what the OP spends her DD's maintenance. Seeing as the ex here buys a pair of school shoes and no more beyond the (underpaid) maintenance, he's hardly in a position to question what the OP spends on their DD, or if she's squirrelled the maintenance away for her DD's future. Makes no difference whatsoever.

[BrokenSunglasses]

I'm not saying she should have to, I'm just saying that it will be good for her to have incase her twat of an ex tries to make out that he shouldn't have to pay the money. If she keeps proof, then any time he wants to know where his money is being spent, (which would be reasonable of him IMO) then she will easily be able to tell him with proof.

If she puts all the money in savings, she will still have to spend the same amount on the things her dd needs.

Like I said, I don't need to prove where my ex's money goes because he trusts me, but it makes me feel better to know that I can prove where his money is going.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Sorry brokensunglasses but that's absurd. The OP's ex cannot challenge the arrears with the CSA on the basis of asking the OP to justify what she has paid in supporting their DD. The CSA calculations are the minimum legal requirement for financial support towards a child, and no stamping of feet, demanding to know what the money goes on changes that.

[thatisall]

The thing is dd has missed out. Finances have been up and down over the last few years and we've made sacrifices including (and this kills me) her ballet lessons. Thy we're expensive and sometimes fell on days when co had her and he often didnt bother taking her.
A little extra per month would have made all the difference.
When money has been short, I have sacrificed things. Professional hair cuts, driving lessons, Xmas gifts for family members, so that dd doesn't ever go without and when money has been good, she has benefitted too. All the while I have put a little away every month for her future.
I think that hat most parents do?! Give their child the bet they can?
Even when we were together his money seldom was spent on dd, so it didn't surprise me that he begrudged the £200 when we split.
He told me that he didn't tell CSa about the increase because he thought the £200 was the maximum amount that anyone could pay.
As far as concern showing him receipts?? How to I quantify how much the extra 'house space' costs? If I didn't have dd ( thank god I do!) I'd happily live in a studio apartment not a two bed house with a garden in suburbia. How do I quantify how differently our careers have progressed, his and mine, with one parent having the responsibility for sick days, child care etc and the other doing whatever the f*ck they like without a second thought for how it effects dd??
There are so many costs associated with being the rp that you just don't get receipts for. I do not begrudge them, believe me I got the better deal being able to wake up with her every day but really, raising a child cannot be broken down into invoices can it?

[BrokenSunglasses]

The OP's ex cannot challenge the arrears with the CSA on the basis of asking the OP to justify what she has paid in supporting their DD.

I didn't say he did! I said he might want to know where his money is going, and suggested it might help if OP was able to show how much she directly spent in her dd.

Thatisall, I completely understand what you are saying about the expenses that you can't prove, I am not with my dcs Dad either so I'm in exactly the same position with that bit.

I just suggested something that helps my ex and I keep things friendly, but if it wouldn't help you then you are free to ignore it.

[Lweji]

Remember, he's not cheating on CSA.

He's cheating on his children and you.

He deserves not only to pay more, but also to pay back.

And if his response is to stop seeing DD, it's his problem.

Just tell him that if he cares so little about his child that he doesn't contribute enough and doesn't want to see him, it's his fault, nobody else's.

[Lweji]

I said he might want to know where his money is going, and suggested it might help if OP was able to show how much she directly spent in her dd.

WTH?

Why? The OP spends as she can and needs to on her DD. No resident parent should be challenged on what is spent on the children, unless they are being neglected.