to wonder if being nice is really worth it?

[Doodlecockaquack]

I am nice. I just am. I try to be considerate to everybody and their feelings, probably give the benefit of the doubt far too often, can't not help someone if I can and admire people who are kind and giving over those who are selfish. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, in fact I've never had a lot of confidence, and am acutely aware and harshly judgemental of my own faults and failings. I know I am over sensitive. I've even rewritten this paragraph several times because I'm worried about sounding smug/using 'I' too much/being too boring etc etc

Anyway, my question is this: Are 'nice' people ever happier than not so nice, mean and/or selfish people who have more regard for their own feelings that those of others? Are things which I regard as 'selfish' or 'not kind' - e.g. making hurtful jokes at someone else's expense, willfully ignoring the needs of elderly/vulnerable relatives, little comments intended to belittle someone, pushing ahead of old ladies at bus stops (to name a few recent examples) - really that bad? It's starting to seem to me that people who are selfish/graby/mean to others etc, really do just get away with it and that you get no credit for being 'nice'.

A few examples recently have really shaken my confidence, and I'd really like to know what I'm doing wrong because frankly, I feel mortified and a bit of a mug...

• We recently got new neighbours, a young couple. Being a bit shy and not wanted to be intrusive, I wasn't straight outside grilling them. But, eventually, I quietly left the house to go for a walk as I always do with my DD and encountered and said hello to the mother of the girl moving in. She quickly told me who she was, and called her daughter over to say hello. Less than 5 mins of small talk ensued, during which she told me they were planning some work to the house which we have already had done. She said they had peered over the fence already to have a look (fine) and I said that if they wanted to come in and have a look they were welcome. A few days later, as I was in the front garden, the guy comes home. Similar hellos, about 3 minutes, no mention of the work, just general moving chat. Next day, clear as a bell because we both had our windows open, I hear the girl telling someone about me, saying I had held them both up for ages and joked about the sad local curtain twitchers. Not intended for me to hear I know, but hurtful.

• In a queue for the checkout, chatting away to my DD (2yo) whilst holding her on my hip (out of choice, because she loves to see the till) but with a trolly full, I notice a woman with only 2 items behind me. I smile and ask if she'd like to go in front. She does a funny chuckle and asks if I'm sure. 'Of course'. She hesitates, then says no, it looks like I've got my hands full. I reply I'm fine, I'm about to put DD down, I don't mind. She says 'now you're just trying to make me feel bad, I'll wait here'. I smile and repeat I don't mind, but it's up to her, but don't press it and turn my attention back to my DD. She's joined by her DH in the queue who immediately remarks on the time it's going to take to get through. They continue to huff and puff about how there aren't any basket only checkouts open, then talk about an appt they have to get to. I'm just about to be served at this point, so turn around and say one more time 'if you're in a rush, skip ahead, it's fine'. She replies 'make your mind up love. I'll stay here now and hope I make it... just get a move on yeah?'. They glare at me the whole time I'm packing my shopping (as quick as poss). Why be so rude? And why throw my good intentions back in my face?

• A friend of mine has recently had DC2, 12 weeks early, as I found out via facebook. We are not close friends, but met when our DD's were newborns (2years ago), and meet 1-2 times a month. I added my good wishes to the dozens already on her facebook, but I also sent her a private message, 3 lines long, putting myself at her service if they needed any help with their DD1 or a dog walker while the baby was in intensive care. Several other people (I don't know who they are), publically also offered support. Lovely, I thought, and a general message of thanks came from the new parents, along with periodic positive updates about the baby which were 'liked' by 50+ people, including myself... But a few days later, I got a reply to my message saying thanks for my offer but it wasn't my place to be 'muscling in' and that I needed to 'back off', of course they wouldn't let me look after their DD and that my interest in their lives was hardly appropriate- signed from friend and her DH. I was, and am, mortified, and just a bit godsmacked. I stress, I do not blame them in the slightest for reacting however the hell they feel like because I can't imagine the stress and worry they are feeling. I don't hold it against them, nor will I mention it if my friend ever speaks to me again. I'm just so upset to have caused them extra upset and mortified that I have done the wrong thing but I was only trying to be nice. Isn't that what people do in these situations?

In the last few months these things, but especially the last one, have really shaken me. I know it sounds indulgent and dramatic, but I feel so inadequate. I don't want credit for caring about others, but why does it so often turn into a negative trait? I'm not pushy, in fact, I'm shy and introverted. Would I be better off not giving so much of a shit, since my natural inclination to 'be nice' seems to backfire so often?

Obviously, I apologise for the length and wafflyness (is that a word!?) of this, it is another failing of mine I hope it makes sense to someone. Please don't flame me!

The nice thing about volunteering (IME) is that I got thanked a lot

Not sure if it was Oscar Wilde who said 'No good deed ever goes unpunished' .... Seriously, you sound a lovely lovely person and I wish I knew you. Don't change. There ARE lots of really nice people in the world, along with the ghastly, rude ones. One just seems to notice the horrible ones more, I'm afraid.

OP you sound such a lovely person. There are a lot of horrible people about. Unfortunately you only need to encounter a few to really dent your feelings.

1. neighbours - if you see them, just say one word - hi - and move on. Don't offer them anything and only talk to them if they come to your door about something. Don't lend them anything or offer any sort of help. They sound nasty so best to keep things civil if you see them, otherwise steer clear.

2. rude, weird, nothing you can do

3. don't bother with this couple ever again. You are being far too nice giving the benefit of the doubt. If they didn't want your help, they could gave replied saying they had help or ignored the message. They actively chose to spend time writing something nasty to you! Don't reply either.

I used to be a nice person and I am not any more because people have taken advantage / been mean etc. I no longer give the benefit of the doubt and am always suspicious of people's motives. Not suggesting you should be like this, but there is a middle ground. I am never actively mean to anyone or rude to strangers but I try to keep away from people unless I trust them.

I see what you mean CailinD, about protecting yourself by being a bit wary with people you don't know yet. Sad it has to be that way though. I still think it is her neighbours who are the weird ones, though. Maybe it is something to do with the age difference.

But on the bright side, she has now got the measure of the neighbours early, knows they are not nice people, and doesn't have to waste her time taking in parcels or doing anything else neighbourly again. With a clear conscience.

I don't think you are being harsh Cailin, but I honestly don't go around looking for things to do, or validation. I didn't as much invite the neighbours in as respond to the comment that they had been leaning over the fence to have a look`at my kitchen as the (not present) DH wanted to knock theirs through as we have done. I simply laughed with them at their confession of standing on some bricks to lean over my fence with 'well if you or dh would like a look anytime without the balancing act, you are welcome'.

It makes me uncomfortable when people cross boundaries with me, or when they try to insist on doing me a favour. I really don't do that. But, my mum set the example of being basically courteous to everyone - I would include the neighbours and supermarket e.g. in that, with occasional extra kindness where you are placed to do so.

I'm not angling for a deeper friendship with the couple with the baby. We were only at soft play with our DD's the week previously (her instigation), and we had laugh as she sent me up.the slides after the girls, drank a cuppa, then went home. I am a doggy person like her, so there has been fuss made and discussion of her dog. At that moment, when she was pouring her heart out to friends and strangers on fb, it didn't seem inappropriate to write that her new baby was beautiful (standard) and that I wished them all well, and that if she needed amusement for DD or a walker for pooch, I'm happy to help.

I'm willing to admit I am not good at the 'game' of social niceties, but I would suggest that I am better at it than those I have recently encountered. I'm sounding defensive I know, I don't mean to, I really do take all points on board.

I am nice but I used to be nicer.

Like you OP I had certain events that made me question why I had made the effort with certain people.

I am always polite, smile, say hello and make an offer to help, but if it is not appreciated or I am made to feel ridiculous then that is the last time I will be nice or make such an offer. Examples include:

Saying hello to a mum in the playground who will ignore me if she is with a certain clique. I just don't bother now.

Having all of DH's family for numerous Sunday lunches and then hearing that they (minus us) had all been to a local pub for Sunday lunch, and coldn't see the problem when we dared to complain.

In the scenarios that you describe the not nice me would:

1. I would still say hello to the neighbour as blatantly ignoring a neighbour requires effort and causes stress. I would probably drop into conversation 'sorry I don't want to keep you' more than once to let her wonder whether you know what she said.

1. I would've offered once and once only. In stranger situations you have to account for people's circumstances, mental health issues etc and the fact some people are just rude.

1. I would either hide or de-friend. I know de-friending can lead to other issues and unnecessary confrontation but you can hide and then forget about her. She was just rude.

I am really nice and kind but I am no-one's fool and I think the two can go together.

I don't expect kindness back. I certainly didn't expect mocking though.

And there's not much of an age difference between me and neighbours, I'm not 30 yet!

There's a difference between feeling obliged to return the favour when someone does you a good turn, and reacting like a mistrustful mongrel who's just been kicked, Cailin. A good natured "No thanks" rarely offends.

OP, I think you are lovely and would be very grateful if you offered me any help. Another poster is right, the world would be nicer if more people were like you xx

Doodle, sorry, not trying to imply you are old! More that you are an adult with a family. Whereas your new neighbour still seems to be stuck in bratty teenager mode!

Nadia

Yes, you could be right. Neighbour's comment suggests to me someone who is a bit uncomfortable about being a grown up with a house and trying a bit hard to be "cool" with her friends - so, her problem.

OP it seems that in two of the examples given, you were viewed as intrusive and perhaps in all three you were misunderstood. That seems a tad coincidental. Could it be something in your tone or manner?

I know someone who is 100% nice, kind, selfless and positive - loves to help others, lives by this ethos and is genuinely kindhearted and giving.

I find it cloying and I find her difficult to get along with, tbh. I feel like I have to put on a relentlessly positive persona and in some ways she is rather boring (which feels terrible to even think as she is so nice!). I don't expect her to start slagging people off or shoplifting but I'd love to see the tiniest bit of edge to her. She seems two dimensional to me, like someone in a children's book.

"A Woman in Your own Right - assertiveness and You."

Another vote here for this book.

Please do continue to be nice to people, there are many of us who appreciate it and would love to meet more people who are nice!

You have every right to be treated with respect and to pick people up on it if they're rude to you.

"Did you mean to be so rude?" is always a good one!

Oh, you sound lovely and so considerate, and it's just really unfortunate that you've come across such mean, horrible people. The last one in particular has me gobsmacked - how awful.

I've actually just been talking to my DH about a situation at work where I feel I'm being taken advantage of becasue I'm doing the right thing - I just can't walk away though, as my conscience wouldn't allow it.

You carry on being your own lovely self - fwiw I don't think you were being "over-nice" in any of the situations, it's just really unfortunate that youv'e come across such unpleasant people.

OP, I don't think you've done anything wrong. I don't think you've been overly 'nice' or cloying or forced yourself on people by offering favours they didn't want. You only did what any normal person would do!! You had a brief welcoming chat with your neighbours, offered to let someone go in front of you at a checkout and offered a helping hand to a friend going through a shit time. If these basic little niceties are now considered pushy or inappropriate then there is something really, really fucking wrong with the world.

You have been really unlucky to get the responses you have got. Really unlucky. Please don't do anything differently in the future, we need more nice people like you in the world not less.

I agree with Cailin and I wonder Nadia whether you have ever encountered someone who is too nice and uses their "niceness" as a way of getting emotional validation from others.
It is utterly exhausting for those around them - I worked with someone like this and the neediness was draining.
It isn't conventional social norms such as holding a door open or offering to look after a good friends child .
Its over stepping normal social boundaries and making the other party feel uncomfortable.

Maybe vaguely I have come across people a bit like this. But I don't think it applies to the OP.

Also agree entirely with what LingDiLong said.

Kindness abounds in the supermarket today.

I paid for my shopping, had a quick chat to the checkout assistant while I was packing my bags - told her I was collecting their stickers for The Goodness Gang - cuddly collectable vegetables and fruit - for my DS.

As the customer behind me was being served with her basket of shopping, when she came to pay for her shopping, the checkout assistant asked if she wanted her collectors stickers and she said "No thanks, but I heard this lady is collect them, so she is welcome to have mine for her DS." Awww I was so chuffed, just the fact she had taken the trouble to hear what I said and responded in a pleasant way!

Mind you, the Co-op where I shop is a proper shopping experience - the staff are friendly and remember things from previous shopping trips etc. The lady who served me even remembered DS wants Grace Garlic and already has Bobby Broccoli and Charlie Carrot.

No I don't think so either - sorry if that wasn't clear Nadia

But the OP described her/himself as "Im nice, I just am" and seems to need to be seen in this way .We cant manipulate how others see us or we come across as false and insincere.
Im considerate,polite but also grumpy when tired and impatient - ask my DH

I think we need to consider cultural differences here. And by that I mean not just nations but regions within our own country. eg what would be perfectly acceptable in a village wouldn't necessarily go down well in a city; and what would go down well in a city, be understood as socially welcoming, could be viewed with suspicion in, say, London.

So I don't think it's particularly appropriate to lay out hard and fast rules about what is and isn't socially acceptable. imo it was perfectly ordinary to offer your neighbour a look at your extension etc. Actually, I wouldn't be exactly thrilled that someone stood on bricks to look into my house, but there we go. Goose/gander as far as that woman is concerned.

I am single and have had to learn the hard way that what went down well when I was in a couple can now be viewed as needy or demanding in some way. It is baffling, I must say, and imo evidence that I, or my situation, has been judged. People can be very small-minded sometimes. As a result I have had to learn to be far less friendly, (tuck myself away?) as even low-level friendliness can be misunderstood. Some people are not naturally generous and can view generosity with suspicion ("what does she want?")

I think some of the examples on here have been extreme examples of needy people out for something, some return. I don't think OP falls into that category: your mother was/is kind Doodle and the way we were brought up leaves an almost indelible stamp, I think; it is natural to follow suit. And a challenge to change course. Your mother is of a different generation and that is another 'culture' that has to be considered when we are looking at social norms.

I think the fact that you have come in for some really nasty experiences does suggest that your confidence is very low at present. I don't know how it works, but people seem to pick up on certain vibes. I don't want to make you feel paranoid!, because what should be perfectly ordinary is imo seen by some as an opportunity to exploit. You just have to bear in mind that some people are horrid. And get yourself shored up.

oh gosh. bless you. I thought I felt bad lately - had some shitty ebay sellers, everything seems a bit of a struggle, but really, why do people have to be so nasty? I find the nicer I am, the more people take the piss. I try so hard to be positive and nice myself. I wish I had an answer. The only thing I ever console myself with is that I will not lower myself to some other peoples level. x

And what 369 said.

It's not you OP it's them. If someone is obviously lacking in confidence it can bring out the bully in some people unfortunately.