to wonder if being nice is really worth it?

[Doodlecockaquack]

I am nice. I just am. I try to be considerate to everybody and their feelings, probably give the benefit of the doubt far too often, can't not help someone if I can and admire people who are kind and giving over those who are selfish. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, in fact I've never had a lot of confidence, and am acutely aware and harshly judgemental of my own faults and failings. I know I am over sensitive. I've even rewritten this paragraph several times because I'm worried about sounding smug/using 'I' too much/being too boring etc etc

Anyway, my question is this: Are 'nice' people ever happier than not so nice, mean and/or selfish people who have more regard for their own feelings that those of others? Are things which I regard as 'selfish' or 'not kind' - e.g. making hurtful jokes at someone else's expense, willfully ignoring the needs of elderly/vulnerable relatives, little comments intended to belittle someone, pushing ahead of old ladies at bus stops (to name a few recent examples) - really that bad? It's starting to seem to me that people who are selfish/graby/mean to others etc, really do just get away with it and that you get no credit for being 'nice'.

A few examples recently have really shaken my confidence, and I'd really like to know what I'm doing wrong because frankly, I feel mortified and a bit of a mug...

• We recently got new neighbours, a young couple. Being a bit shy and not wanted to be intrusive, I wasn't straight outside grilling them. But, eventually, I quietly left the house to go for a walk as I always do with my DD and encountered and said hello to the mother of the girl moving in. She quickly told me who she was, and called her daughter over to say hello. Less than 5 mins of small talk ensued, during which she told me they were planning some work to the house which we have already had done. She said they had peered over the fence already to have a look (fine) and I said that if they wanted to come in and have a look they were welcome. A few days later, as I was in the front garden, the guy comes home. Similar hellos, about 3 minutes, no mention of the work, just general moving chat. Next day, clear as a bell because we both had our windows open, I hear the girl telling someone about me, saying I had held them both up for ages and joked about the sad local curtain twitchers. Not intended for me to hear I know, but hurtful.

• In a queue for the checkout, chatting away to my DD (2yo) whilst holding her on my hip (out of choice, because she loves to see the till) but with a trolly full, I notice a woman with only 2 items behind me. I smile and ask if she'd like to go in front. She does a funny chuckle and asks if I'm sure. 'Of course'. She hesitates, then says no, it looks like I've got my hands full. I reply I'm fine, I'm about to put DD down, I don't mind. She says 'now you're just trying to make me feel bad, I'll wait here'. I smile and repeat I don't mind, but it's up to her, but don't press it and turn my attention back to my DD. She's joined by her DH in the queue who immediately remarks on the time it's going to take to get through. They continue to huff and puff about how there aren't any basket only checkouts open, then talk about an appt they have to get to. I'm just about to be served at this point, so turn around and say one more time 'if you're in a rush, skip ahead, it's fine'. She replies 'make your mind up love. I'll stay here now and hope I make it... just get a move on yeah?'. They glare at me the whole time I'm packing my shopping (as quick as poss). Why be so rude? And why throw my good intentions back in my face?

• A friend of mine has recently had DC2, 12 weeks early, as I found out via facebook. We are not close friends, but met when our DD's were newborns (2years ago), and meet 1-2 times a month. I added my good wishes to the dozens already on her facebook, but I also sent her a private message, 3 lines long, putting myself at her service if they needed any help with their DD1 or a dog walker while the baby was in intensive care. Several other people (I don't know who they are), publically also offered support. Lovely, I thought, and a general message of thanks came from the new parents, along with periodic positive updates about the baby which were 'liked' by 50+ people, including myself... But a few days later, I got a reply to my message saying thanks for my offer but it wasn't my place to be 'muscling in' and that I needed to 'back off', of course they wouldn't let me look after their DD and that my interest in their lives was hardly appropriate- signed from friend and her DH. I was, and am, mortified, and just a bit godsmacked. I stress, I do not blame them in the slightest for reacting however the hell they feel like because I can't imagine the stress and worry they are feeling. I don't hold it against them, nor will I mention it if my friend ever speaks to me again. I'm just so upset to have caused them extra upset and mortified that I have done the wrong thing but I was only trying to be nice. Isn't that what people do in these situations?

In the last few months these things, but especially the last one, have really shaken me. I know it sounds indulgent and dramatic, but I feel so inadequate. I don't want credit for caring about others, but why does it so often turn into a negative trait? I'm not pushy, in fact, I'm shy and introverted. Would I be better off not giving so much of a shit, since my natural inclination to 'be nice' seems to backfire so often?

Obviously, I apologise for the length and wafflyness (is that a word!?) of this, it is another failing of mine I hope it makes sense to someone. Please don't flame me!

Please, please don't stop being the kind hearted thoughtful person you are.

The world would be a better place of more people had your thought process and gentle nature.

Don't stoop to their level, continue being you.

And other people react to you like that to make them eleves feel better (as in example 2). Rise above and keep smiling

Sorry that was a bit incoherent - ipad.

Incidentally, i think there are a number of posters on MN who are great role models in genuine assertiveness, not agressiveness, reall assertiveness. I have had lots of food for thought by readding their comments on here.

None of the situations you describe seem anywhere close to the boundary of pushy or imposing, they all sound like lovely kind gestures.

The third would play on me most, as it is someone who knows me throwing it back in my face. Would you feel comfortable posting a copy of the message (names removed) to fet an extra opinion on whether it came across as more than you intended?

Ever heard the phrase misery loves company?
Misery in any form, grief, stress, insecure in own life will be jealous of your happiness whether its sub conscious or not they will want to tear you down a peg or 2 and put a dampner on your day because they are struggling with life so why should you be happy.
Don't let them! Keep combating rudeness with kindness, I know it's easier said than done. But the kind of people you encountered at the supermarket will be wanting to intimate you, make you feel like your the one in the wrong because its easier than taking a look at themself and changing their hideous behaviour. In that case I would have smiled and shrugged then packed at my own pace still smiling away to let them know they hadn't got to me.
With your neighbours you said the girl, was it the daughter? Kids can be a bit brainless sometimes I would automatically assume her mother is the same. Maybe your could go for a kind apology. ( I know you have done nothing wrong but to inform her mother kind of way)
"Hiya, listen I'm so sorry if I upset you the other day, I was cleaning upstairs with the window open and heard your daughter telling someone I had held you up for ages. I was honestly just trying to be neighbourly, we have always spoken to neighbours in the past but if this isn't something your comfortable with then that's no problem "
With your "friend" I think your right to say nothing although its bloody tempting. She was incredibly rude and there was no need for it, I would hope in the future she will apologise to you but honestly I think she'll be to embarrassed.
Just remember its not you it's them

Wouldn't automatically

You sound like a lovely person.

It would be an idea to show your Facebook message and its reply to your mum and ask where she thinks it all went wrong.

My mum always said to me: if you have no enemies within, the enemies outside can't hurt you.

A little dramatic, I know but I suppose it is about self-assurance. You sound really kind, OP and thoughtful. Don't ever question your kindness, rather question the twats people who throw it back in your face. But continue to be you and be happy being you.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Their rudeness remains THEIR problem and it is in no way associated to your kindness. This is how these people behave to whomever they feel.

It's great that you are a nice person OP but sometimes you need to unleash your inner bitch so people don't walk all over you (this use to happen to me a lot). Brutal honesty works well too. Sorry for your experiences x

You're just having a run of bad luck OP. As I always say to my kids - not everyone is lucky enough to be brought up with good manners and a kind heart. Be thankful that you have those wonderful attributes. Rudeness is always about the person being rude and the best test of ood manners is how you deal with bad manners. You sound lovely.x

Music

Your mum is wise

Harry

I agree with you completely. There are some people who, either through current life circumstances, or upbringing, who simply don't know how to cope with kindness or generosity towards them.

As others have said, you are having a run of bad luck. You sound lovely and I wish you were my neighbour/friend.

However, I do think once burned, you need to move away from people who don't appreciate your kindness otherwise there's a chance that you end up more doormat like than kind.

Finally, I can't understand the email from your friend, it sounds very odd and you are right to put it down to extreme stress. Having said that, I wouldn't be rushing forward in the friendship again, they don't think well of you for whatever reason and that's what I mean about being slightly self-protective.

Having been used for my willingness to help out for years, never getting any help in return I have started a mental 'NO CREDIT' attitude: until you are in credit with me with one act of kindness, I will not be putting myself out for you. And, if you treat me badly, you get a bad credit rating with me and I ignore you.

Mumsy

Yes. Self protectiveness is really important

OP, playing devil's advocate here...regarding point 3.

You didn't, by any chance, say you would walk the baby and baby-sit the premature dog

I really feel for you. You sound as though you're agonising over these situations, particularly your friends with the baby, but you haven't done anything wrong.

Don't stop being kind, or offering kindnesses, as that's part of what makes you the lovely person you are.

Try, though, not to let their rude responses grind you down and - as many others have suggested above - remember that more often than not, their responses are about them not you.

As someone who wants to be liked and also frets about how I'm perceived and whether people like me/hate me etc, I've read the advice on here avidly! Try to take it on board - MN is speaking a lot of sense...

That's awful, OP. It made me really sad to read. I'm a bit like you in that I am relentlessly nice and helpful and I often wonder why I bother as it seems to me that a lot of people don't appreciate it or are unpleasant in return. Having said that, I don't think I've ever had anything as bad as your third example, which was really shocking! I can't begin to understand what's going on there.

I can't answer your question, really, but if you're a nice person I think it's almost impossible to turn yourself into an uncaring horrible one.

I don't know what to say.
I have had a couple of similar things happen to me recently, only not quite as bad as yours.
I think the only comment I can make, is that you do seem to be a genuinely nice person. Believe that and take comfort from that.
And thus, you need to find the courage to actually let these people go. Accept that they are actually not that nice, or you are not getting what you want out of these friendships and relationships. And no big drama. But just let them go, in your heart. And go off and try and focus on those friendships that are nice, or try and find new ones.

Music I'm pretty sure I offered to amuse the 2yo for an hour or walk the dog!

Thanks all for your replies, you've given me a lot to think about. Assertiveness is something I am constantly trying to gain, and mn is great for that, I agree.

I was a painfully shy child, and although I have more confidence now and do ok most of the time, being social is still a conscious effort. I'm sure I misjudge it sometimes and come across as 'aloof', 'scary', 'insistent', or another of the (useful) suggestions on this thread. The examples I have given were sufficiently short and simple interactions, that even shining my harsh spotlight on myself I'm sure I didn't misjudge anything that much and that I couldn't really affect the outcome without having just not opened my mouth in the first place.

I just want to get this right before my DD gets much older, because I want to her grow up with the example of kindness, but not being a doormat, and never feeling she should apologise for existing.

My dad is a sociopath, a complete arsehole. He always lands on his feet, always. If he actually does one thing nice people will sing his praises for weeks, if he does something wrong people excuse him because he is just helpless [name]

On the other hand I have my mum who is lovely, so very lovely. If she ever messes up people want to hang her up and because it is always expected that she is nice and caring it gets taken advantage off.

You need a middle ground. I am very nice but also wouldn't let anyone take the piss. I would have had something to say to the couple at the checkout for example.

In general, I think sadly that there is a lot of truth in the saying Nice guys finish last.

Lots of lovely people on this thread btw being nice can't be that bad a strategy if it's mn approved.

Why not focus your efforts on kindness to people that form part of your regular everyday life. So for instance, find a regular role at DDs school- I don't know if you have time available, but perhaps go in and help children with their reading? Or volunteer in a charity that you believe does good work, and involve DD in the underlying activity? Or be a cub or Brownie volunteer- they are crying out for people to help, and they have an excellent ethos of constructive kindness.

The trouble with individual acts of kindness to people whom you don't know, is they are exhausting and you don't know how they will be received. So by all means stay polite and considerate to strangers, but focus your efforts in setting an example of kindness on a regular role, where your kindness will be recognised and valued, week in, week out.

A useful sideeffect is that it will improve your social confidence. For that reason, helping at school might be the best place to start.

Sorry- I see that dd is only 2- so you might need different examples, but you see what I mean (and try those later).

Doodle :)