to wonder if being nice is really worth it?

[Doodlecockaquack]

I am nice. I just am. I try to be considerate to everybody and their feelings, probably give the benefit of the doubt far too often, can't not help someone if I can and admire people who are kind and giving over those who are selfish. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, in fact I've never had a lot of confidence, and am acutely aware and harshly judgemental of my own faults and failings. I know I am over sensitive. I've even rewritten this paragraph several times because I'm worried about sounding smug/using 'I' too much/being too boring etc etc

Anyway, my question is this: Are 'nice' people ever happier than not so nice, mean and/or selfish people who have more regard for their own feelings that those of others? Are things which I regard as 'selfish' or 'not kind' - e.g. making hurtful jokes at someone else's expense, willfully ignoring the needs of elderly/vulnerable relatives, little comments intended to belittle someone, pushing ahead of old ladies at bus stops (to name a few recent examples) - really that bad? It's starting to seem to me that people who are selfish/graby/mean to others etc, really do just get away with it and that you get no credit for being 'nice'.

A few examples recently have really shaken my confidence, and I'd really like to know what I'm doing wrong because frankly, I feel mortified and a bit of a mug...

• We recently got new neighbours, a young couple. Being a bit shy and not wanted to be intrusive, I wasn't straight outside grilling them. But, eventually, I quietly left the house to go for a walk as I always do with my DD and encountered and said hello to the mother of the girl moving in. She quickly told me who she was, and called her daughter over to say hello. Less than 5 mins of small talk ensued, during which she told me they were planning some work to the house which we have already had done. She said they had peered over the fence already to have a look (fine) and I said that if they wanted to come in and have a look they were welcome. A few days later, as I was in the front garden, the guy comes home. Similar hellos, about 3 minutes, no mention of the work, just general moving chat. Next day, clear as a bell because we both had our windows open, I hear the girl telling someone about me, saying I had held them both up for ages and joked about the sad local curtain twitchers. Not intended for me to hear I know, but hurtful.

• In a queue for the checkout, chatting away to my DD (2yo) whilst holding her on my hip (out of choice, because she loves to see the till) but with a trolly full, I notice a woman with only 2 items behind me. I smile and ask if she'd like to go in front. She does a funny chuckle and asks if I'm sure. 'Of course'. She hesitates, then says no, it looks like I've got my hands full. I reply I'm fine, I'm about to put DD down, I don't mind. She says 'now you're just trying to make me feel bad, I'll wait here'. I smile and repeat I don't mind, but it's up to her, but don't press it and turn my attention back to my DD. She's joined by her DH in the queue who immediately remarks on the time it's going to take to get through. They continue to huff and puff about how there aren't any basket only checkouts open, then talk about an appt they have to get to. I'm just about to be served at this point, so turn around and say one more time 'if you're in a rush, skip ahead, it's fine'. She replies 'make your mind up love. I'll stay here now and hope I make it... just get a move on yeah?'. They glare at me the whole time I'm packing my shopping (as quick as poss). Why be so rude? And why throw my good intentions back in my face?

• A friend of mine has recently had DC2, 12 weeks early, as I found out via facebook. We are not close friends, but met when our DD's were newborns (2years ago), and meet 1-2 times a month. I added my good wishes to the dozens already on her facebook, but I also sent her a private message, 3 lines long, putting myself at her service if they needed any help with their DD1 or a dog walker while the baby was in intensive care. Several other people (I don't know who they are), publically also offered support. Lovely, I thought, and a general message of thanks came from the new parents, along with periodic positive updates about the baby which were 'liked' by 50+ people, including myself... But a few days later, I got a reply to my message saying thanks for my offer but it wasn't my place to be 'muscling in' and that I needed to 'back off', of course they wouldn't let me look after their DD and that my interest in their lives was hardly appropriate- signed from friend and her DH. I was, and am, mortified, and just a bit godsmacked. I stress, I do not blame them in the slightest for reacting however the hell they feel like because I can't imagine the stress and worry they are feeling. I don't hold it against them, nor will I mention it if my friend ever speaks to me again. I'm just so upset to have caused them extra upset and mortified that I have done the wrong thing but I was only trying to be nice. Isn't that what people do in these situations?

In the last few months these things, but especially the last one, have really shaken me. I know it sounds indulgent and dramatic, but I feel so inadequate. I don't want credit for caring about others, but why does it so often turn into a negative trait? I'm not pushy, in fact, I'm shy and introverted. Would I be better off not giving so much of a shit, since my natural inclination to 'be nice' seems to backfire so often?

Obviously, I apologise for the length and wafflyness (is that a word!?) of this, it is another failing of mine I hope it makes sense to someone. Please don't flame me!

I agree with Marialuna. Stay in touch with your inner bitch! Those people are two faced / mad / rude. Perdonally,I pride myself on being a nice person and and make no apologies for who I am, I would have made all the same offers as you did in your op. only difference is that but when my kindness is rejected I always shrug and think its the other person's problem. Which it is. We all have our crosses to bear - and for some people that's being an utter arse. Not for you to worry about. If it makes you feel better, cut the Facebook people out and just offer big standard watery smiles to those particular neighbours. It's their loss.

Don't go changing - the world does indeed need more people like you!

Nice guys finish last, but tend to like themselves more at the end of the race.

It is not really worth it to be nice, but could you really live with yourself if you weren't.

I think unfortunately you've just ran into some nasty/weird people.

I can think of a fee people I know in rl who remind me of the scenarios you described.

When I was at my sisters wedding we all had some photos taken opposite a pub, sister then told me it was just her and dh for the next ones and told me and dp to go into the pub over the road, everyone was scattered about by this point and some had gone to pub. She said her and her dh wanted the photos alone. So we went to pub, about 10 metres from where they were, we sat outside and shared a drink. We were there all of 5 minutes when My nephew then come over and says my sister is fuming with me as I've missed the photos. So I go over and ask sister if I was supposed to be in those photos and she just waves her arms and says yes but you were too busy in the pub. She specifically told me to go and wait at the pub fgs.

My.gran used to invite my uncle and his wife and kids for tea each week. She'd buy loads of food and make a huge fuss of them saying her home is their home. Bringing out food and treats. The minute they left she'd ring my mum saying how greedy they all are and how they've eaten her out of house and home.

I'd block the couple on Facebook . They sound awful.

Being nice doesn't mean being a pushover.

Over many years I have watched less nice people apparently do well, but it never ends well. Being nice and having a fairly clear conscience is the best, most sustainable way to be happy.

You asked for any tips and I would only suggest one little thing. You said that being a bit waffly can be a failing of yours. If you suspect people are being impatient, as in the first two stories you tell, try to be as concise and quick and decisive as you can be. That's not being un-nice, it's just responding to their lack of patience, which may be making them behave ungratefully to a kind action.

I very much relate to your post, OP. I often find myself offering to help people in some way and having it thrown back in my face. Not nice.

I am not so much bothered for me because I am used to it. However, I wonder how much of a disservice I have done to my children by the example that I've set. Time and time again I have watched my children be polite, stand in line quietly, wait their turn, etc. Except the end result is usually that countless other children push ahead of them while the parents of the other children look on and say nothing! I am proud that my children know how to behave and be considerate of others, just wish it was a trait that was actually valued and would lead them somewhere other than being walked all over.

I think it can be useful. We can't cherry pick other people's techniques and be nasty to order, because unlike them, we will feel bad afterwards, and get stressed by the guilt, or not see it through. So we are stuck with being nice.

Advantages are- what goes around comes around. People are more likely to support you if you are consistently nice and unselfish. People will not be out to get you back for something unkind you did.

I think the art is to be assertive while being nice. You make your kind offer once, without taking too long over it, and if people play hard to get you smile and move on.

DS1 used to be the kid who challenged other, much bigger kids for pushing into lunch queues. Not a great strategy, and it got him bullied when he was younger. But as an adult, being nice is definitely a winning strategy for him.

You poor thing. You sound really nice and you have not done anything wrong or abnormal! I think you have just been unlucky in encountering some weird/unpleasant people recently.

With the neighbour, I just wouldn't bother speaking to them again. And don't take in any parcels, either!

With the couple who have just had the baby, well that was seriously strange, are you sure they didn't intend the e-mail for someone else? How dare they! Did you reply? I would have been tempted to respond with something like "Well fuck you then. Freaks". Then delete them as friends. Whatever tough time they are going through, there is absolutely no excuse for such nastiness towards someone kindly offering to help.

Some people are dicks. Sad but true.
Also question your motivation ( a general 'you', not specific). If you behave like this because its natural and feels right to you, then if others are assholes it doesn't really matter.
If you are like this and hope for thanks, reciprocal help etc then you will be disappointed because there are a lot of rude ungrateful people out there.

OP you sound lovely, I wish you were my neighbour.

Don't feel you have to change. Regarding the neighbours, I would continue to say hello or just nod and pass by without stopping to engage in small talk.

Regarding the supermarket, I would made the offer just once and then left it. Regarding her OH, I would have had my back turned and not 'heard' a word. You don't know anything about their relationship and it is amazing how many couples seem to communicate via snippy comments to each other. It could have been he was having a pop at her for choosing the 'wrong' queue.

Regarding the baby, I would not say anything either, but would step back a bit from this friendship.

I try to be nice and friendly too and at times it comes back and slaps me around the face too. :)

You're fine, Doodle, it's all the other buggers, as they say

The way I see life, I enjoy doing things for people, if there is the opportunity to do a good deed, because it's the right thing to do, for the joy of seeing a smile on someone's face. But equally life has taught me that you do need that 'emotional antenae' and even a skin like a rhino at times, if the good you do backfires and people respond in a way you didn't expect. So, with your examples, you did some friendly deeds and they weren't appreciated, well it is their loss! Don't stop being thoughtful, just see it as unfortunate but not a reflection on you, rather on them for being churlish, ungrateful or just not worth wasting your time feeling disappointed over!

I offered to put up some posters round our village for my yoga teacher last night after our class and you should have seen the smile on her face, she was so chuffed and thanked me very much. Its times like that I think I would far rather reach out to folk and spread the joy, at the risk of the occasional custard pie in my face, it makes the world a nicer place!

Carry on being a Doodle, that's my advice.

The thing about good deeds backfiring is it makes you feel sort of humiliated for having put yourself out in the first place - and it can be something as simple as letting a driver out from a busy junction and them not thanking you, right through to some of the things that you describe. It's such a shame. Our capacity for spontaneous little acts of kindness is one of the more likeable human traits (even if you could argue that true altruism is rare). Sorry you've had some bad experiences recently but don't change, I'm sure there are far more people who have appreciated you than who don't.

OP you seem to be good caring person and just stay that way

IMO sometimes people are just shy to accept somebody's else help or there are some rude people as well

But you OP do not become discouraged by examples from your post
The world need more kind carring people and I thing that is the way how we all should live ours life

Even if sometimes strange things are happening

The last a few weeks I ve been using first bus service quiet often
Because I travel with my DC and pram
I was letting all passengers to go first in and then on the end me with my baby in pram

Just imagine OP my face one day when bus driver told me after a really long waiting in que
That sorry I can not get in because it was way to busy
And I let everybody else in before me

*queue
Then I

Well he wasnt the nicest bus driver anyway

But

Oh posted to fast sorry

But should I become rude because of stupid things like that

We would learn from our experience

I am less nice these days after finding people take the piss. Live the quote about your inner bitch, I found mine.

My friend hasn't found hers yet. She seems to attract selfish people. One of them used to go on about how awful it is that someone whose DD lovely friend took to school never gave petrol money. Fast forward a year and lovely friend ferrying her DD, no petrol money.

Lovely friend has been pretty much bringing up her DD. She was taking her and her own DD to the beach , got a bit assertive and said the other woman should come and got accused of bullying her. This is from the woman who frequently hasn't taken no for an answer and would send her DD to ask with flowers as she knew lovely friend would cave even if she'd said no earlier.

Now she's attracted another similar 'friend' Some people seem to have an ability of sensing easy going nice people and use it to their advantage. They will be the losers long term (bitch friend in this example struggled with a major birthday as she realised how lonely she is, she's got through all her friends). Carry on being yourself. One day you'll realise you're surrounded by similarly lovely people and feel you are coming out on top. Unfortunately you have to step over a few selfish twats on the way there.

Doodle, you do sound like a very kind-hearted person. The new neighbours were clearly unpleasant, so I don't blame you for wanting to avoid them in future.

The only thing I can think of, which someone else mentioned in relation to your second example, is that maybe you offer help too much. So in the supermarket, you could have offered, said "Are you sure?" once when the woman said no, and then ignored from there on in. After she has already said no repeatedly and your stuff is about to be loaded through the till, turning to ask again while well meaning and nice is a bit OTT.

I know you only sent a short message to your friends so their response seems really harsh and out of order. This is going to sound odd, but maybe you were a bit too specific in your offers of help. You said later, I think, that you were more coffee and softplay friends than anything closer, so a general offer of support would have been fine while a specific offer to look after their child and dog seems too familiar for your friendship level.

You might want to think about if you are too persistent or are always leaping in to offer help. So if someone comments in passing "I need to do x" do you instantly react with an offer of help? And do you accept a no, or do you keep pushing your offer? Because while it is well-meaning and kindly of you to offer, it can also be really annoying to be on the other side of it.

I'll give you an example from my life. My Mum is lovely, always wants the best for my brother and I, and we spend a fair amount of time together. However, I have already had to have words with her about one really annoying habit she has and if she does it again I am liable to scream at her because it is seriously pissing me off. What she does is every single time I mention I'm thinking of buying something, or doing something, or (most recently) going somewhere for a weekend she offers me money towards it. Every. Single. Time. I don't want her money, I don't need her money. And I know she means well. But the fact is, every time she does it she makes me feel like a 12 year old. So it doesn't matter that she is doing it to be nice when from my point of view the end result is that I end up feeling crap and like my Mum thinks I'm a child and that I can't deal with my money and decisions myself. And then I stop telling her things because I don't want to have to turn down her help YET AGAIN.

I think i am mostly a nice person but i have never encountered the rudeness that you mention. I find it quite shocking that adults would be so rude.

I know exactly what you mean OP.
I think I'm 'nice' too. I'm also lacking a bit in confidence and want people to like me. Don't get me wrong, I get pissed off with people and I will react (after a long deliberation and assessment to make sure I'm not over-reacting ) but on the whole I remain baffled by how thoughtless and selfish many people are.
Things like mums on the school run that talk and smile one morning and blank you the next.
The family that shoved in front of us at the queue for a flight after we queued patiently for 40 mins.
The bolshie upfront outspoken twerps at work who get what they want whilst I kick myself for being too thoughtful that it will deprive someone, or cause someone too much work.
Watching my ds wait his turn politely and patiently whilst other kids shove in or shout out or push themselves forward.
I'm not yet worked out if these people do get more out of life or whether its a hollow 'victory'.
I prefer to keep my integrity and know that I've treated people well. Treat others as you wish to be treated. And also I do believe what goes around comes around, I just have to believe that for some of the behaviour I've witnessed over the years.
But good on you for being nice. If people don't respond with warmth and thanks, move on and know you did the good and right thing. We'll sleep better at night.

I think I'm a nice person generically, but I can be quite assertive, either in a nice or less nice way.

You will meet nasty or stupid people, it's just life.

1. It might not be you, but I'd probably be less warming next time and see how they act to decide. Next time I met them I'd probably make my excuses claiming they must be busy.

1. I'd probably tell them to get ahead, not offer. And if they refused I'd tell them not to complain, with a huge smile.

1. It could be him (I he's like my ex) or a mistake. You could reply, don't worry I won't. Has he/her given any indication that he might be an abuser?

OP

You sounds nice but I'd add to the advice here two thoughts:

There have been times in my life when the negative experiences, though much less frequent than the positive have upset me out of all proportion to their frequency. In my case that has been times when i have been unhappy, depressed even. When i am low, i notice and remember the horrible way more than the nice things. Also, i tend to personalise what is actually just other people's rudeness, stemming from their own issues.

I agree with what Lweji said above about the couple in the supermarket. Their own passive aggressiveness made them behave as they did. Tought tits to them I say.

I was brought up to care excessively worry about other people's wellbeing. My mum now acknowledges that she is not very assertive herself and it doesn't come naturally to me. But becoming more assertive may make you feel better, though it won't necessarily change other people!. A book I like is called

A Woman in Your own Right - assertiveness and You.

You sound really nice and thoughtful.

I wonder though if you might be taking things a bit too much to heart. You did nothing wrong in those situations as far as I can see. The other people were rude. I guess the couple with the baby might not have normally reacted like that- maybe the stress pushed them to it.

But perhaps you have put too much of the 'blame' onto yourself here? Why should you feel bad just because other people were thoughtless and selfish? That's their problem, not yours!

When this sort of thing happens to me I try to tell myself that at least I did the right thing, even if they didn't. Reminding myself that virtue is its own reward type of thing. Sometimes it helps a bit..

What a bunch of twats.

I am similar to you in that I tend to just brood when someone is rude to me, I get all shaky and incapable of coming back at them.

I think nice is an overrated quality. Better to be able to cut people out who are useless so you can devote yourself to those who are worthy.

My family are back-biting, rude, aggressive, selfcentred, sefabsorbed moaning bullies.

Every word you utter is taken out of context and twisted to take the maximum offence...... For instance....

You always look lovely in that top.
What do you mean...we can't all afford new stuff you know....it is clean I do wash it in between wearing it

So. I met and married a lovely chap.....and moved 300 miles to be close to bis family. In 20 years, I've never fallen out with anyone of them. They seem to think that if you offend them you didn't mean to and it's not worth falling out over.

I have a lovely relaxing easy to way to live.

My family complained that.... You have chosen them over us

No shit, sherlock. But I would never admit that to my family because I don't want to cause any bad feeling!