PILs only praising DS for being "clever"

[ShadowStorm]

Been staying with the PILs for a few days, and have noticed that whenever they praise DS (22 months) for anything, they always throw in "clever". Regardless of what DS has done.

So far, things that he's been told that he's a clever boy for, or has done a clever thing, include:

Saying a word PILs haven't heard him say before
Sleeping through the night
Eating all his food at mealtime
Standing still for a nappy change
Kicking a ball to someone
Running without falling over
Scribbling with his crayons
Cuddling PILs

It's nice that they're being positive and praising him - but - the constant use of "clever" is really starting to get on my nerves.

Partly because I'd prefer DS to be praised for making an effort than for being clever, and partly because I can't see how some of these things he's getting told he's a "clever boy" about have anything at all to do with intelligence.

I haven't said anything so far, but WIBU to ask PIL's to stop using the word "clever" whenever they praise DS? Or should I just do my best to ignore it and keep my mouth shut for the next few days until we go home?

So your children, thanks to you not calling them clever, no longer think that's a compliment? And you're PROUD of that?

I'm honestly not convinced that you're serious. I think you're 'doing irony'.

There is a growing body of evidence that clever is a toxic compliment.

Apart from the reasons above it can reduce a child's willingness to fail and thus take risks as the success they have had is outwith their control - whereas telling them they have worked hard instills an internal locus of control and over time improves confidence in them.

But yknow carry on, scoff at op, don't let me get in the way

people/teens do this a lot it is called anxiety due to be a perfectionist a lot of really clever people are wired like this

I doubt they're wired like it, mrsjay. It's all part of the same bundle for sure, but according to everything I've read about perfectionism it's picked up in early childhood.

Child exhibits characteristics that are praised as "clever", parents encourage this in a well-meaning way because we all know that being "clever" is a good and worthy thing. And from then on, when the child is average at something - or even if they have an average day at the thing they are usually "clever" at - it is treated as slightly sub-optimal, a bit of a problem. Whereas in a child whose parents aren't hung up on them being "clever", an average performance at something is no problem. Hence, "clever" child becomes a perfectionist.

*Liara are you asking me?
Because I am pretty sure I never said they were.

I am stating that 'clever boy' or 'that was clever' is not harmful or negative.*

We are not talking about using clever in and among many other compliments here, we are talking about it as the only and exclusive form of praise.

That is what I am saying is bad.

I find it pretty strange that you don't understand why praising a child for their looks is not necessarily a good thing but you are determined that calling a child clever is wrong

I am not saying that, I am saying that they are equivalent. Exactly the same thing. Both are bad if used to excess, neither is if used among other things, preferably majoring on the effort put in.

Yes, they are equivalent. If you label a child "pretty" and praise them for it, they will decide it's a good thing to be pretty. They will make an effort to be pretty to win more praise. They will start to feel a bit of a failure when they are not being "pretty". "Pretty" becomes the label by which they measure themselves.

Substitute the word "clever". Exactly the same applies.

This is a 22moth old baby with doting grandparents , RhondaJean- it is quite harmless.

Month!

I guess it depends on how you view being clever. I think being clever is about learning to do new things (not just academic things)/ being good at thinking/ talking about ideas (not necessarily getting everything right either)

I think "clever" is a really lovely compliment when it's used for all sorts of different things, because it shows a child that being "clever" isn't just about knowing facts/ spelling/ reading.... that actually there are lots of ways you can be clever. I think it's a word that can help children feel really good about themselves.

I often tell my little boy he is "clever" if he e.g. sleeps in his own bed/ does his own 3 year old version of a cartwheel, rides his bike. He's chuffed to bits when I tell him! Technically I could say "good grief, call that a cartwheel, that's rubbish, you're not very good at that at all" - but really I don't think that - I think wow - you're watching your big sister doing that and you're trying it out for yourself and not only that but you've learnt and you're using the word - that's clever!

I was also often told I was "clever" when I was younger, but it was always in relation to tests/ exams/ spelling/ reading - I always felt a bit rubbish at lots of other things, and also thought that you were only clever if you got everything right .... I think that's partly why I love using the word for all sorts of little achievements/ or near achievements, especially non academic ones :-)

Rhonda, do you think that grandparents should be fully up to date with all the modern research on child development before they can interact with their grandchildren in a manner not subject to ridiculous and excessive nitpicking?

Well, how damaged is DH?

Is he an ambition ridden multi-tasking CEO of a FTSE100 company who works 80 hours a week but still strives to achieve greater heights as he is soooo clever he will never believe he has reached his true place in life?

Liara

I'm not totally disagreeing, I see your point.

But it is a matter of degree, and grandparents talking to a22 month old doesn't seem to me to be the time or the place to make a stand.

My 10 year old interprets praise of effort as me saying " yeah, you tried hard, but it turned out crap" so sometimes you can't win

I don't think a parent with a genuine concern about her child should be ridiculed. And if you all think GPS don't/can't have a massive influence on children, or that treatment in the first three years is more shaping than at any other time in a child's life, I just despair.

The really sad thing would be to inhibit grandparents when they talk to their grandchildren so that they have to vet their words in case mother doesn't approve. I can understand it if they were swearing or being unpleasant.

I tell my son he's clever when he does something like a mental or physical achievement because I use 'good' when he is behaving well rather than learning a new skill. He's not 'good' because he knows what noise a horse makes because being good isn't dependant on knowing things, but on his behaviour if he does what I ask him to (or usually stops doing something I have asked him not to). He's young, so I don't focus on the effort he's made because it would mean nothing to him, but I think it's the definition of clever which bothers me from some posters.

However, to me, cleverness isn't just a measure of natural ability, rather the way one uses ones abilities as a foundation for achieving your goals. If you are brought up believing that being 'clever' is just something that happens to you or doesn't then that's probably more to blame than the words used to praise you.

Liara, my son has no idea what clever means, to him it just means he has done something that has pleased us, it is said with a smile. His IQ has nothing to do with it, and we are not saying he is now supremely intelligent but that he can do something that he couldn't previously do.

You are hung up on it being used with highly intelligent children who then go on to feel they are only valued for their intelligence. Believe it or not even families of children of average intelligence use clever to praise them.

My other son is very bright and will probably get an excellent set of GCSE results, despite being so laid back he's practically horizontal and doing sod all work. We have never praised his intelligence, just said he is lucky to find schoolwork easy and have pointed out that he may at some point have to put some effort in. There have been plenty of times when we told him he was a clever boy when he was younger though, for a whole range of things.

I agree exotic

OP. i know this is your first child, and as such, we tend to worry, look ahead excessively and want to control everything about their experience, but you are in for some serious heartache if you don't chill.

MrsDv

I agree with you, my dear.

I think that your attitude of control is far, far more damaging RhondaJean. You can control what you do, in your own home- and that is as far as it goes. You can't control your DCs environment unless you keep them at home and don't let them mix.

What a depressing op.

So it's not enough to love and care about your grandchildren, you have to be up to date with the latest psychobabble before you can speak to them for fear of damaging their self-esteem. Luckily 99.9% of parents will not give a toss and the world will carry on as before.

ShadowStorm I understand what you mean, and FWIW, I always wonder if people are being ironic or a bit dim when they say I was "clever" for producing a baby. (It wasn't my brain I was using at the time! )

It would be much better if the PILs understood and used the concept of descriptive praise. So - instead of constantly praising DS for something he has no control of, and which is not even necessarily relevant to the situation - they were praising him for what he actually did.

An example of descriptive praise would be if he runs without falling over, for example, the praise might be "Well done for running without falling over! I can see you tried really hard to do that, and you did it!"

Or, if stands still for a nappy change, the praise might be "I'm so pleased you stood still for that nappy change. What excellent self-control!" (Doesn't matter if self-control is a new word IMO, he'll know it's a good thing by the tone of voice.)

Of course it's lovely that your PILs care for your DS and I expect it doesn't even cross their mind that they're saying the same thing over and over again, it's a bit like a verbal tic I guess.

I always used to tell DS he was a "good boy" till a friend explained descriptive praise to me (in the context of trying to get DS to be better behaved!) I do try to use it now, I never would have thought of it, but actually it does make sense IMO.

I have a suggestion: this book has a chapter on descriptive praise: Calmer Happier Easier Parenting. I'd get the book, read it and then tell your PILs about it, in a positive way. Lend them the book, and tell them, to check out the bit on descriptive praise. Tell them you've started to do this with DS (if it's true!) and ask if they'd be able to help you give it a go. Put it all in positive language.

They've done nothing wrong, and I'm sure you know it may well get their backs up if you imply they have! But nothing unreasonable about asking for their support in trying a parenting technique is there? If anything it's including them.

Sorry this became a bit of an essay, I hope it's helpful!

I have anxiety issues stemming from being labelled 'the clever one' and needing to prove my intelligence to have any self-esteem.

It is only now nearing 30 that I feel I've really conquered these issues and for this reason I make a huge effort to praise my dd for her effort and her attempts and failures.

I don't worry about what other people praise her for, however, as I think (hope) mine and her father's input will override most external influences. And it is ok to feel proud of being 'clever'; I just don't want her to have her whole sense of self balanced upon this one characteristic (as I wouldn't if the characteristic were appearance, either).

I see the chapter on Descriptive Praise is available as a free Kindle download

Threefeet

Great for the OP to use, but gawd, don't impose that on the GP

Suit your self exotic - I know my kids are well balanced, confident, well cared for, achieving and at the end of the day that's what matters.

But I really dislike this attitude if picking on the op for being concerned about behaviours which have been proven to have a negative effect on children. Still roll on with your sniggering, it obviously makes you all feel better.

Op if you are still reading yanbu.