PILs only praising DS for being "clever"

[ShadowStorm]

Been staying with the PILs for a few days, and have noticed that whenever they praise DS (22 months) for anything, they always throw in "clever". Regardless of what DS has done.

So far, things that he's been told that he's a clever boy for, or has done a clever thing, include:

Saying a word PILs haven't heard him say before
Sleeping through the night
Eating all his food at mealtime
Standing still for a nappy change
Kicking a ball to someone
Running without falling over
Scribbling with his crayons
Cuddling PILs

It's nice that they're being positive and praising him - but - the constant use of "clever" is really starting to get on my nerves.

Partly because I'd prefer DS to be praised for making an effort than for being clever, and partly because I can't see how some of these things he's getting told he's a "clever boy" about have anything at all to do with intelligence.

I haven't said anything so far, but WIBU to ask PIL's to stop using the word "clever" whenever they praise DS? Or should I just do my best to ignore it and keep my mouth shut for the next few days until we go home?

"well personally I was never praised for anything but my self esteem is actually ok and in check. maybe adults should address their stuff and stop blaming parents for what they think was doing right at the time"

I suggest you don't go on the mental health boards and offer your "advice" mrsjay. Nor the stately homes thread. Clearly because you're "ok and in check" anyone who isn't needs to just "address their stuff" . I hope no one has ever praised your tolerance.

Hello! Looking forward to a good old traditional bit of wheel spinning and tyre screeching after dark tonight.

sorry people, slight hijack - as you were.

Why is it not the same as the OP, Cory? It sounds exactly the same. I have a good memory of my pre-school years and this is definitely when all this started. I was talking and understanding a fair bit at 2 years old.

Partly because I'd prefer DS to be praised for making an effort than for being clever, and partly because I can't see how some of these things he's getting told he's a "clever boy" about have anything at all to do with intelligence.

Sounds like she's complaining about inappropriate use of "clever" to me.

Yes allnew, but in this case, the OP is staying with the pil for a few days.

I think that in the grand scheme of things it is better that the grandparents praise their gc for his cleverness rather than yank him round and dismiss him as a little bastard.

Grandparenting, in the traditional sense, is famously indulgent. That is exactly the point of it.

As his mum, it is you who is lumbered with the task of providing appropriate responses such as descriptive praise and using every learning moment to teach a virtue. The gp on the other hand are off the hook. They have done their time.

Yes indeed, but a number of posters were making a general point about the role of gp's and their limited influence vis a vis parents and my point related to that

MadBusLady Tue 25-Jun-13 11:09:43
"Why is it not the same as the OP, Cory? It sounds exactly the same. I have a good memory of my pre-school years and this is definitely when all this started. I was talking and understanding a fair bit at 2 years old."

It is not the same because most children rely on their parents as their prime carers to shape their world view. It is very easy for a parent to gently explain that granny is just a bit over enthusiastic.

Do you genuinely believe that if your parents had not had any inappropriate expectations on you and taught you to regard grandma's gushings with amused tolerance, that you would have been damaged in the same way?

MY experience is that MY Mum and Dad (and GPs for that matter) told me I was clever (and pretty and all sorts of other good things) and guess what, I am clever and pretty and lots of other good things.

My boys are clever and handsome, so I tell them so. If they grow up knowing they are clever and handsome then I will be a happy bunny.

Inappropriate praising is a problem though, my cat was playing fetch with me the other day and I told her she was a clever girl and she stuck her bum in my face and walked away.

Oh I see! Sorry, cory, I have totally misunderstood you there. Yes, my experience is what the OP is actively trying to avoid.

As I think I have already said, I don't think grandparents' influence is enough to worry about unless they are the primary carer or something. I do think the OP is right to identify it as a problem in the abstract though.

Grandparenting in the traditional sense ...

Grandparents these days are often the primary carers. Or at least 50/50 with the parents. I think if a GP is spending significant amounts of time with their GCs - one or more whole days as sole carer each week - then they should be getting involved with the nitty gritty of the up-binging of the child/ren. Be that the language regularly used around them, or the foods regularly given to them ... whatever.

Posters here are telling us that the 'clever' label damaged them. Those of us who have not had experience of the problem have no right to dismiss this. ''I havn't seen it/can't imagine it so it doesn't exist''.

In the OP's case i personally think it sounds as if the GPs are not spending enough time with their GS for their behaviour to have an effect. I would expect, as other posters have said, that they will 'grow out' of saying 'clever boy' all the time as the lad gets older.

My advice to the OP at this stage would be to lead by example and praise without the 'c' word in front of them - they may pick up the language without realising it, and without the need for a confrontation.

My own DCs - i think i used to spend allot of time saying oooh, you did really well at that! Well done! Not complicated.

fluffyraggies Tue 25-Jun-13 11:23:43

"Posters here are telling us that the 'clever' label damaged them. Those of us who have not had experience of the problem have no right to dismiss this. ''I havn't seen it/can't imagine it so it doesn't exist''. "

What about those of us who say the praising for effort hasn't done us any favours in life- do we get taken seriously too?

Jesus wept. I got to page 5 and gave up.

Some loving, doting grandparents fascinated by the new things a baby is doing can't do anything right. I can't believe there are people in the world traumatised by being called 'clever' occasionally by your grandparents. Seriously. Get a grip.

If that is the biggest issue of your childhood you wouldn't know toxic if it smashed you in the face.

You can understand that "praising effort" and "giving labels" are 2 different things? - yes?

Of course you can be taken seriously Cory. But i think you're experience goes to prove the point that a child needs more than a label.

Always Try's Hard.
Clever.

Both are labels.

My label at school was ''Could have done better, consistently fails to reach potential''.

Posters here are telling us that the 'clever' label damaged them. Those of us who have not had experience of the problem have no right to dismiss this. ''I havn't seen it/can't imagine it so it doesn't exist''. - you kind of missed my point though, that saying 'what a clever boy or girl' is an extremely common phrase, most people will have had it said to them at some point in their childhood, often a lot by grandparents/parents, but most people are not perfectionists who feel 'damaged' by this type of gushing praise. It's not obviously causal, given how common it is.

Agree, any particular label is potentially a problem if it becomes your whole defining characteristic.

Looking back maybe that's what MrsDeVere meant when said I was denying her experience, as she mentioned the lack of the ever being praised for being clever. I definitely wouldn't want to do that! I can see how that is a problem just as much.

I should not speak for MrsDeVere and if she tells me off that will be fine.

But I think given her experience she will be very glad of every word of praise and love she said to her daughter.

As will I of my sons.

Doedeer

If that is the biggest issue of your childhood you wouldn't know toxic if it smashed you in the face.

Have your grip back, love.

Look, I love reading research as much as anyone else. It informs my parenting choices, but it does not dictate it. I am lead by my child and my awareness of the situation.

Some current studies show that being called clever all the time is damaging. Previous studies told us to praise our children. Future studies may well tell us that by focussing on effort we instilled a lot of anxiety in naturally talented kids who thought that they weren't trying hard enough.

Seriously, what you do depends on you knowing your child and applying common sense. And that includes looking at the much bigger picture and weighing up whether this issue warrants an action that may hurt the feelings of kindly meaning extended family who love your DCs very much.

This will probably out me as being a loon / pfb but my in laws and my parents did the constant you're so clever to dd and it really got on my tits.

They see dd at least 3 to 4 times a week (child care (I'm so lucky)) so they are very important in her life. I did end up showing them some research re the benefits of praising effort not intelligence and a more focus on process praise.

Both my parents and in laws were fascinated and subtlety changed the way they talked to dd. I didn't and wouldn't have asked them to change what they were doing, they are great grandparents and dd is a lucky girl to have them.

I get on really well with MIL and FIL by the way (she makes me cake )

I really like dione's post
Some current studies show that being called clever all the time is damaging. Previous studies told us to praise our children. Future studies may well tell us that by focussing on effort we instilled a lot of anxiety in naturally talented kids who thought that they weren't trying hard enough

I think this is a great point, in twenty years time when the studies show praising effort isn't all it's cracked up to be I'll be kicking myself.

I suggest you don't go on the mental health boards and offer your "advice" mrsjay. Nor the stately homes thread. Clearly because you're "ok and in check" anyone who isn't needs to just "address their stuff"

I would never offer anybody any mental health advice ever why would I do that , and I was talking about people saying being called clever is damaging and toxic it really isn't do you really think I would go wading into a thread where a person is suffering and tell them to get a grip. I do think adults need to help themselves though

"people saying being called clever is damaging and toxic"

No one actually said that though, you're putting elements of separate sentences together, out of context, and composing your own over simplistic view of of what no one actually said

"do you really think I would go wading into a thread where a person is suffering and tell them to get a grip"

Well based on your posts on this thread, I rather suspect you might, yes

I can see the OP's point - we try to praise things our DC can repeat, eg "it was really helpful of you to stand still for your nappy change". Adjectives like kind, thoughtful, helpful, careful, which praise both innate character and choices made.

I read something recently but when I still had a brain that praise needs to be specific. If you always say the same thing, the child knows they are loved, but not why, goes the theory.

So, OP, I don't think you are unreasonable to want more sensitive praise for DS in the long term, but I agree with other posters that the way to get that is to model what you want the GPs to do, and later say "we're trying hard to do xx ... it makes me feel like a bit of a dick but DS responds really well". Pretend it's a recommendation from nursery/HV or something if that authority helps.

The issue is whether or not to raise the OP's concern with the GPs.

IF she thinks that they will understand her concern and either agree with it or agree to going along with her way, out of respect for her wish to raise her child as well as she can AND they won't be offended by being told that there is a better way of doing things the OP would do well to ask her DH to bring this up with his parents.

I agree it would be a shame if GPs feel frightened to say or do the wrong thing with their grandchildren - of course that's going to take some of the joy of being a GP out of it. But it should work both ways - GPs with the benefit of hindsoight, remembering how they were once anxious first-time parents too and how they felt about other people influencing their children in a way they weren't happy with would be wise to be respectful and sensitive to a new mum's feelings.