PILs only praising DS for being "clever"

[ShadowStorm]

Been staying with the PILs for a few days, and have noticed that whenever they praise DS (22 months) for anything, they always throw in "clever". Regardless of what DS has done.

So far, things that he's been told that he's a clever boy for, or has done a clever thing, include:

Saying a word PILs haven't heard him say before
Sleeping through the night
Eating all his food at mealtime
Standing still for a nappy change
Kicking a ball to someone
Running without falling over
Scribbling with his crayons
Cuddling PILs

It's nice that they're being positive and praising him - but - the constant use of "clever" is really starting to get on my nerves.

Partly because I'd prefer DS to be praised for making an effort than for being clever, and partly because I can't see how some of these things he's getting told he's a "clever boy" about have anything at all to do with intelligence.

I haven't said anything so far, but WIBU to ask PIL's to stop using the word "clever" whenever they praise DS? Or should I just do my best to ignore it and keep my mouth shut for the next few days until we go home?

One thing is trying not to pigeonhole the children in just one category (the clever one, the sporty one, the noisy one), the other is to call something with its name.
If someone's being clever, or doing something clever I can't see why not saying so.

Overpraising, no matter what the praise is, is always annoying though.

As the parent it is my job to teach my child how to manage his own expectations and those of the people around him. My DS is often told that he is beautiful and clever. He is.

If he is experiencing problems with things (as he does), I simply remind him that he was not born walking, talking or able to feed himself. He learned those things. He was not good at them, but he put the work in and that if he works at what is frustrating him he can become as good at that as he is at using a fork.

I cannot and do not seek to control what others say to him. I do not believe that it would do him any good at all to think that everyone is like me. I do believe that as his parent it is my job to help him understand himself and the world around him. This includes when people use the words clever, beautiful and kind.

As I suspected: these studies are about American fifth graders, in a classroom setting, being praised for (alleged) performance on specific academic tasks. Nothing to do with grandparents making gushing noises to a toddler.

Ime grandparents' gushing is like motherese: it is used during a limited time in early childhood and then becomes moderated or a source of embarrassment.

Totally different to a pre-teen gravely being informed by an examiner that he has reached a higher percentage on his last task than he actually has.

These studies teach us zilch about how to speak to our toddlers.

Iirc motherese has been proved to be beneficial for baby language development, but I don't suppose anyone would extrapolate from that that it would be a useful tool to use on junior school children in a classroom setting.

I tell my children that they are clever, it is a fact, they are clever. Doesn't mean I am going to condemn them if they make a mistake. I don't remember being praised much, I remember all the negative comments from my childhood. I will damn well praise my children and tell them that are clever.

I also tell my DD that she is pretty. She is, she is stunning. Pale skin, big blue eyes and red curly hair. Always getting comments about her.

I continue to be puzzled by the vehemence with which e.g. MrsDeVere and mrsjay want my experience and the other similar experiences discussed here not to exist.

I am not sure what I have done wrong I did acknowledge so of the postsI also agree that over praising can in some cases damage children I dont see what we did that was wrong except disagree that a 22 month old baby will not be damaged by saying clever boy,

Indeed, Cory.
Also, grandparetns have a totally different role than parents in the upbringing of children.

If you're not reading anyone else's contributions, MrsDeVere then I guess that does explain some of your comments. I can't really be bothered to repeat myself again. Suffice it to say, some people here have had a problem with the "clever" label, that has fuck-all to do with being over-scheduled or hectored, and this seems to chime with the literature that has been linked to.

I was meaning that kind of over praise of nearly doing something. If I tried that on him he would give me a look for sure! Gentle praise, no problem.

We do of course praise for giving ANYTHING a go. We also acknowledge that not every one can be good at everything, and we talk about this because it is OK not to be good at everything. Enjoying it and being bad at it is also fine! Ds1 at swing ball is excellent fun. He loves it! He is terrible at it but does not care a jot. We have a lot of fun regardless.

So if there is something you are better at, how is praising that (and PLEASE understand here I mean sensible, non pressure etc praise) a bad thing.

MadBusLady Tue 25-Jun-13 10:44:42
"Same here, allnew, my parents never hot-housed or over-scheduled me, or were classic pushy parents in an academic sense. But they did (well-meaningly) give me the idea that "being clever" was my thing that I could do, it was one of their default praise words, they listened out for anything I did that could be called "clever". And they partly did it to boost my confidence because I wasn't as good as other things (like socialising). "

That is exactly what we are saying: the damage was done because inappropriate praise was given by the people who were supposed to give you a measured idea of yourself. In other words, your parents.

And because this was done when you were of an age to interpret the words as a genuine assessment of your ability or their expectations.

So, not the same as the OP.

It's like Dione says: the difference between doing a good job of parenting and thinking you can control everybody your dc come into contact with.

How about those of us who were never called clever start sharing how it affected our lives?

well personally I was never praised for anything but my self esteem is actually ok and in check. maybe adults should address their stuff and stop blaming parents for what they think was doing right at the time

"Also, grandparetns have a totally different role than parents in the upbringing of children"

Agree they have a different role but sometimes in reality they do most of the day to day caring when parents are at work. Therefore whatever their role vis a vis the parents, then can have a significant impact

Incidentally, this one that I think was linked to above is interesting too and does focus on pre-schoolers:

"Generic praise implies there is a stable ability that underlies performance; subsequent mistakes reflect on this ability and can therefore be demoralizing. When criticized, children who had been told they were ??good drawers?? were more likely than those who had been told they ??did a good job drawing?? to denigrate their skill, feel sad, avoid the unsuccessful drawings and even drawing in general, and fail to generate strategies to repair their mistake."

I knew somebody who was hideously embarrassed and possibly damaged by the fact that her parents carried on speaking baby language to her until she was well into her teens.

I imagine her flesh must crawl every time she hears baby language from anyone.

Doesn't mean she can conclude that everybody who speaks motherese to their 6mo is damaging their child. Her bad memories are her particular problem, because her parents had no sense; they are not going to happen to anybody who is ever cooed over.

mrsjay you are aware that threads develop and posters can talk to one another on a thread without you, the self-proclaimed mumsnet police, telling them to get perspective?

OH i consider myself told

Where have I dismissed your experience, MrsDeVere? I freely admit to not knowing anything about SN parenting. I am happy to be educated. Maybe all bets are off as regards the right way to praise when dealing with SN, or certain kinds of SN - none of these studies mention whether any of the children involved have SN. But whether or not that is true, it's still the case that some of us had a problem with the "clever" label.

I think interesting may be overdoing it

Honestly, the things some women will find fault with in their PILs astounds me. Truly. They are spending time with their grandchild, hleping to care for him, they are noticing his little achievements and developmental milestones and praising him for them, they love him and are proud of him. Why can't that be enough? Is it really essential that you can find something to disapprove of?

I haven't read any of the thread BTW, only the OP.

Hi Fellatio, happy national holiday!

I think interacting in a genuine way with your own children, saying loving nice things, is better than some phrases out of a book. It sounds weird if you do that, my mum used to do this praising effort thing 'I love the way you have coloured in the lines' and it really sounds unauthentic and fake.

I think being a perfectionist is waaaaay beyond being caused by these simple phrases that most parents or grandparents say, because otherwise most people would be perfectionists and they are not. It's a state of mind which which is partly personality and anxiety levels, partly due to high achievement (if you fail quite early on a lot it tends not to develop!) and partly interactional (e.g. if you are in a society which values high academic achievement you are more likely to focus on that as the focus of perfectionism). Your parents saying 'clever boy' when you are three is neither here nor there in my opinion; intense parental pressure and expectations is something quite different and often unsaid.

And- Cory is right, the research does not show in longitudinal studies that praising intelligence as a toddler leads to poor outcomes in later life, there's no studies that measure this, it's much more about classroom learning, and I personally don't agree with Carol Wotsername for the reason above.