To say don't let your young child go to the toilet alone

[1Veryhungrycaterpillar]

Today in a fast food restaurant I saw a lady with a child of around 3/4 who wanted to go to the toilets that were situated upstairs she said she didn't want to go (she had no other kids) with her and let him go alone, am I BU to say I wanted to shake some sense into her?? I suppose I'm more aware of it as I've seen cases of assault on young children in public toilets through my line of work but I would've thought most people wouldn't do it, I am ready to be corrected!

So at what age do you think a child does not need to be within sight at all times?

Amazing - sorry if I've offended...I wasn't directly talking to you.

And I read that you weren't talking about the ladies...again though, I want talking directly to you...just about my general experience. I've only just come into this discussion.....

I agree nonno but my 9 year old went to the gents in the city shopping centre we went to Ladies waited outside he was a while then came out looked a bit worried asked him and he said a man had looked under his cubicle door so he was afraid to come out. I was horrified and he did used to come to the ladies for a bit until we said that it would be a one off (hopefully) and we need to carry on with suitable toileting operations. But still makes you think

amazingmumof6 Tue 25-Jun-13 10:47:00

"I want to know where they are and prefer to see them or where they went, be aware where they are."

This is the bit I have a problem with. Imo a 12yo needs to have times when he is not within sight of a responsible adult, when he relies on his own judgment and on his own wits.

And if that wasn't happening naturally (as it does with ds), then I would be thinking of ways of engineering it.

pink ballet - the first bit was a general summary.

I was agreeing with you, so only the last sentence was directed to you I'm not offended by you at all! sorry!

My first post on Mumsnet was when I was in a state because I let my eldest dd, then 5.5, go to the loo in McDonalds by herself where she was grabbed, shoved up against a wall and threatened with stabbing by a teenage girl.

I had assumed a small McDonalds in a pleasant market town where I could see the door and knew there were no other access/exit points was safe. It was a massive mistake which has impacted on both dd and me and on our relationship. Now, at 13, she has severe social anxiety and is very afraid of what people might do to her. She doesn't trust adults to keep her safe because I failed her that time. That incident is clearly not the only reason for her illness but it comes up tie and time again in therapy sessions.

However, I have had to force myself to allow my younger dds to become independent for their own sake. I let them go to public loos without me but together.

I think some people are deliberately being ignorant to gain a reaction. .

Amazing, I'd also make sure my children are within my sight so I know where they are at age 12 if at an unfamiliar place. Which parent wouldn't want to know where their child is if you're out and about? If you went out somewhere would you just walk off if your child didn't come out of the toilets quickly? I even wait for my DH when we go out, so why wouldn't I wait for my children?!

I'm also a bit about which life long skills are to be learnt by going to the toilet alone when out. I think independence and coping skills can be learnt in a variety of different ways and situations and not confined to going to the flipping toilet alone in the local shopping mall!

Fakebook Tue 25-Jun-13 11:13:44
"I think some people are deliberately being ignorant to gain a reaction. .

Amazing, I'd also make sure my children are within my sight so I know where they are at age 12 if at an unfamiliar place. Which parent wouldn't want to know where their child is if you're out and about?"

So doesn't your 12yo ever go out on their own?

It's not going to the loo in itself that is teaching life skills: it is being out and about in general, not always being within sight of a parent or have a parent do the risk assessment.

All 12yos I know hang out with their friends, walk to school on their own, go to town or to the cinema. I do not follow a party of burly 12yos to the park to sit watching them as they kick a ball about, nor does any other parent I know of.

For the record, when dd was 12 and went on the school trip to Belgium , they were left to negotiate the shopping mall in a Belgian city in small groups without a teacher to supervise. It was explained that this was part of the learning experience.

I'm shocked that people don't let their 12 year olds go to the toilet alone. I mean, knowing where they are is fine, but going with them and waiting outside? That's a bit OTT in my opinion. At that age I was expected to tell my parents where I was (eg. if I was going to the toilet or to look at something in a shop) but I would be allowed to go off alone.

Going to the toilet alone allows children to feel like they can do things for themselves. I don't necessarily think it teaches you important skills or anything - but I just think if you can't let a 12 year old out of your sight for five minutes, you're going to have problems further on down the line. Surely you let them go out with their friends alone at weekends or after school?

Oh dear KateF, I'm really sorry - what a horrible thing to happen to your DD .

I don't have a 12 year old yet

Going out alone and going out with your family are two different things. Even if they do go out with their friends, I'd assume they'd all go together and wait for each other to finish and walk out together in a group. So essentially, they do the parenting job themselves when they're out alone too.

cory and as I said you have a very good point there, and I'm grateful for your insight, the only positive thing I'll take away from this thread.

Really it's just never been an issue.
we tend to go to places together as a family.

believe me I wanted my 2 oldest walk home from school when they were year 6 & year 4, but they fight a lot and I just couldn't risk them pushing each other onto the road..

If was just one or the other I would have let them walk home from school individually in year 4 or 5, but they were not to be trusted together alone.

and as to going out with friends in the evening/weekends on their on - it has never come up.

shops -there was never a need for it. I'm a SAHM, so I do the shopping during the day.
cinema or going to town - again, never come up.

but because you asked I see what you are saying and will ask the other mums what their kids do and how they handle things.

I'm happy you pointed it out.

FWIW I was 14 when I did a club which involved taking 3 different buses across a capital city, on my own and back 1 hour journey each way. twice a week. I'd be home at 8pm.
no mobile phones either.
at 15 another club, similar travelling, 1.5 hrs each way, back home at 10 or 11pm.
you couldn't have stopped me.
I also used to do extreme sports. I think I'd let my kids do the same, but maybe not - that depends on the child
it is different from a parent's POV, isn't it?
when you are younger you don't think of what could happen.

thanks anyway, good talking to you

thsnks fakebook
I also wait for DH.
and he waits for me.
also very handy when you are pg...and end up fainting etc ( not me, but a friend)

kateF so sorry to hear what happened. I hope one day you will stop blaming yourself and that your DD will get better.

Well Facebook, if you don't actually have a 12yo, then you may be surprised at how big and independent they actually are.

A 12yo is someone who may well be meeting up with his friends in town or splitting after a while to travel home separately.

A 12yo is someone who may be taking his girlfriend out to the cinema.

A 12yo is someone whom you can send to do your shopping when you are ill in bed.

I had a 12yo until the other week. We are talking about a large lumbering creature of 5 ft 9 with a man's voice and the makings of a moustache. A person who was responsible enough when a relative was injured to keep them warm and comforted and to get an ambulance (actually he was only 11 then). A person who will soon need to start thinking about his GCSE choices and work experience.

"it is different from a parent's POV, isn't it?"

Yes, but is it any different from our parents' POV?

I know my mother often had her heart in her mouth, I know she cried when I went to stay abroad at my language course at 14, I know she cried again when I went off to uni. But she put her feelings to one side because she thought of the benefits to me.

I don't suppose I am going to care any less when dc are old enough to leave home. But I will sleep better if I know they have been well prepared.

Every time dc come home and tell me about a difficult situation they have coped with- whether getting away from a dodgy-looking stranger or helping a friend who was hurt or standing up to pressure to drink themselves senseless at a party (16yo)- I know they are that little bit closer to the day when I can send them out in the world with confidence. If I kept them home and protected, I would never know.

cory I don't keep them home. neither are they forbidden to gobout with their friends.
It's just they never asked for it

*go out

don't know what gobout is

I have two 12 year olds (niece and nephew) in my family, so I do have some kind of idea about what they are capable of thanks.

As it happens, my niece is nowhere near the level of maturity to go and do shopping from the local store, but my nephew is.
The points you've mentioned don't really have anything to do with toilet habits. You've kind of honed in on the point I made upthread about children learning independence in different situations. The fact is that even adults use toilets together so if you do it with a child what's the outcry?

and my mum was the same as your when I did parachute jumping or went away potholing for an entire weekend.
granted a teacher was there, but I was the only girl, only 15, amongst a bunch of 16-19 old boys!

would I let my daughter do that? massive question mark.

fakebook I agree with everything you say.

My 3 and 5 year old DDs are allowed to go to the toilet unaccompanied in Waitrose or in a Bistro. They are not allowed in Iceland/Lidl or McDonalds.

Hope that helps.

Not suggesting you are deliberately keeping them at home, amazing; I know you don't.

It was your comment about how different it feels from the parents' POV. I don't necessarily think it matters how it feels tbh- or rather we weigh how we feel now with how we will feel when they are getting on that train to uni and we look at them and know they are as confident and streetwise as any young adult can be expected to be.

I have had to work extra hard at this, as dd is disabled and has some MH issues (anxiety), so it would be very tempting just to take the easy way out and look after her.

But I don't for a moment suppose that a young adult with a chronic medical condition will need less confidence and coping skills than her peers: if anything she will need more. So I keep making sure she gets the chance to practise.

I am not honing in on toilet skills, Fakebook. I am honing in on those comments which say you should never let a 12yo out of sight. I have no idea if ds goes to the loo or not when he is out in town with his mates. Perhaps he doesn't. The toilet is inessential. Not letting them out of sight is, to my mind, a problem.