Prioritise my own DD (brownie leader)

[TreesAndFlowers]

I am a Brownie leader and DD is a Brownie in my pack.
From time to time (maybe 2-3 a year) our county organises ?large scale? brownie events which require an adult to attend for each 6 brownies.
These events tend to be at weekends and generally involve quite a bit of a drive, so the other leaders in the unit choose not to go.

I am happy to go to these events because I want DD to have the experience of attending. So I go with DD and 5 other brownies.
Due to the events being at weekends and a bit of a drive, there are generally (say) only about 8-9 brownies interested in any given one. We?ve so far adopted the policy of selecting brownies by random draw, with the understanding that anyone who is unsuccessful will get priority next time.

This has so far been fine. It?s tended to work out that if a girl put their name down for every single event (which I don?t think anyone has) they would probably get to go to 2 out of 3 of them (we also do an annual pack holiday and there are more local events they can attend so they do have other opportunities). Except that my DD is getting to go to all of them. A couple of parents have recently started muttering about this and saying that it?s not fair that I am prioritising my own daughter. Which I agree that I am, but frankly I?m not sufficiently altruistic to spend a whole Saturday/Sunday at an event miles away otherwise (I do already help at the aforementioned pack holiday and more local events at weekends), so if DD was not coming, I wouldn?t be going, and no one would get the opportunity.

So AIBU?

I know that Eyes (am a Scout Leader).
Some groups automatically ask all parents to be CRB'd anyway, so they have them all 'ready to go' as it were, when help is needed. If people aren't prepared to, then they have no grounds from which to complain about there not being enough places, is the point.
You don't need special car insurance.

Ok, last time I carried children in my car as a teacher, I had to tweak the insurance requirements.

Sorry, I think the other parents are right. It sounds from your posts like you just would rather not go unless your child goes, rather than actually would be stuck for childcare. If you live with your child's father and he could spend the day with her instead of her coming with you, then it doesn't seem unreasonable for her to be selected as often as any other girl rather than every time.

You're entitled to feel that you wouldn't do the event if you couldn't take your dd. But it's unfair on the other girls, and their parents are entitled to be annoyed and feel it's favouritism IMO. You take the risk of your dd being seen as a kind of 'teacher's pet' and resented by the other girls.

Perhaps it needs to be put to the parents in terms of "we'd like to have more adults to take turns but we need more volunteers".

Having said that, if I were one of those parents I wouldn't complain about your dd going every time. But if you had a partner I might wonder why he was incapable of caring for his dd for a weekend.

Well, that's easy enough then, OP doesn't volunteer next time, her DD is in the lottery with the others and let's see what happens.
We lost a couple of free school clubs that way.

It's not as simple as putting your name on a list.
They'd have to have an enhanced CRB check, the car insurance, if the adult is expected to run an activity, the comittment to not dropping out at the last minute...
That's a lot of bother

And there in the last sentence is exactly why parents who complain about shit like this are being totally unreasonable. Volunteering for pretty much any club that involves kids is a huge commitment and responsibility. Parents don't always realise the prep that goes on outside of the 90 minute session their kids are at, the crap you have to deal with many weeks either from the admin side or (worse) from parents.

It's very straightforward in this case as others have said: offer the parents the choice, either your DD goes or no-one gets to go with the other option that they could organise themselves so that more adults are available.

Eyes - that's because it's your job. I have to have 'business ins' for carrying children as a teacher, but parents - or any leaders - helping out a voluntary organisation only have to have SDP, I presume as it's a 'hobby' or 'leisuretime activity'.
I can see this from both sides, tbh. I do think that if you are a Leader, then weekend events are part of the package, and that all the girls should get equal opportunity to do them. I agree it would be different perhaps if for some reason the Leader's dd couldn't ever be left with anyone, but I get the impression that's not the case here ?

Jan49 it's not that OP's DH is incapable of caring for his daughter for a weekend, more that why should he when OP is out doing an activity for a group to which their daughter attends, for which she doesn't get paid and for which she is the only adult attendee. I think the question should be why wouldn't the OP's daughter go to all of these events? I certainly wouldn't be giving up my weekends to look after other people's kids and do fun stuff with them if my own child couldn't come along and get the benefit of it. I think it's insane to suggest otherwise.

I imagine there would be uproar if OP asked for adult volunteers and then decreed that the volunteers child would not be able to attend due to space/number issues, you'd just get the volunteer dropping out.

it probably isn't 'fair' but it is by far the best solution so the other parents need to get on with it.

Her daughter already 'misses out' on these trips being a day/weekend away from parents and the excitement that brings because her mum is always going to be there.

I am utterly speechless.
So as well as the meeting time, all the time spent on planning meetings, preparing activities, clearing up and admin. You are expected to give up your weekend to take out other people's kids and find childcare for your own!!
If a parent is unhappy then they should sodding well drive too!

Jan49 I don't see why the OP or her partner (if she has one) should be doubly responsible for supporting these arrangements, when the other parents are giving up nothing, none of their time or effort, but expect the OP to do so.

YANBU

These parents need to get a grip.

They really think that you should leave your DD at home so you can give up your time for free to look after their DD?

Seriously?

Now I've heard everything!

It's another example of what I keep seeing on here and in RL - parents think their kids are so wonderful that they genuinely think you are privileged to have the opportunity to look after them for nothing. They are bewildered as to why you bother to take your DD at all, as she is not anything like as nice as their DD and their DD would be much better company. Heck, they were even thinking of charging you money for the pleasure of having their DD's with you - as she's so fab and all . . . but now you're saying that she can't come and your inferior specimen of a DD is going again????? . . . < does not compute, does not compute > < head explodes >

(although I wonder if this hasn't come about by someone's DD whining to her "Why can't you become a Brownie Leader like TreesandFlowers, so I'd get to go on all the trips?" and the mother is panicking )

Thinking about it a bit more OP, it might be worthwhile asking for parent helpers on these trips - if they would in fact be helpful.

I have the utmost admiration for you as being a brown owl must take up a reasonable amount of your free time and it's not something I would commit to at the minute, but I'd be happy to be involved with a full weekend event if I knew it would guarantee my DS ( so it's Beavers rather than brownies of course) a place.

I was asked if I was going to continue running the toddler group (as I'd done pretty much single-handedly with bugger all help for years) once my child started school, and was met with surprise when I said no!

People are odd.

Oh and parents complained when I went on holiday two fucking weeks a year - yet none came forward and volunteered when asked if someone could cover.

YANBU OP.

Yanbu

YANBU.

My ds has had an automatic place on cub camps because his Dad is a leader. As it should be.

I don't think you're being unreasonable as being the daughter of a guider you also have to do the shitty stuff as well (if no one else will turn up - you have to, oh the church parades as one of only 3 there, the remembrance services on cold, rainy or snowy early november mornings that I had no choice in going to.... it was just part of the deal as the daughter of a guider!). The issue is that other leaders won't do any of them. I run a guide unit and my DD's are both pre brownie age. I work full time (okay, currently on mat leave) and as such my daughters come to camp or we don't go - it's as simple as that (before any guiders wonder how we sort our ratios - husband comes too). Likewise with weekend activities I will only do one a term and if I have to go to a training then there won't be a weekend activity for the guides that term.

In my experience parents are happy to moan but very unwilling to put their money where their mouth is (so to speak) and volunteer to help. I've seen very successful units fold because of lack of volunteers.

"Teacher's pet". Guiders are not teachers. They are not paid. Sorry: pathetic attempt to show OP as unreasonable, fails.

DH is a Cub leader. As a Beaver, DS gets to go to Cub Camp and other activities before his time. But he's been at the top of the waiting list since he was 18 months old, so we figure he's earned it.

OP, I'm sure that if your DD were in another unit, the whining cow bags would be concerned that, "if her guiding isn't good enough for her own dd, then it's not good enough for mine..."

"But I haven't got time to help" usually means, "it's not a high enough priority for me". We do it with two working parents; it's do-able.

Don't let yourself be bullied out of a totally fair and reasonable approach to balancing family time with voluntary work in your community.

YAsoNBU and I am that parents have been muttering about unfairness.

Do they honestly think you should leave your dd at home for the privilege of spending a day with their dc? Er no, not how it works.

My dd attends GG and another parent complains frequently about activities she perceives as boring or not well orgqnised. Same parent never shows up when it's her turn to help out, sell biscuits etc.

There will always be givers and takers. They are lucky to have you.

You missed a bit - they're also the parents who think that what volunteers do is piss easy and they of course could do it standing on their head and make a much better fist of it than we do. So they have every right to sit on the sidelines and vocally slag us off in front of the kids because let's face it the training courses and certificates I did aren't worth the paper they're written on...not forgetting that there isn't a cat in hell's chance their child is actually being a disruptive little sod and ruining it for everyone (coaches/leaders included) and if they want to bollock anyone then they would be much better off hauling their child off and telling them to belt up!

I think you and your family should get some "perks" for you giving up all the time that you do to run Brownies VOLUNTARILY. No-one pays you to do this.

I couldn't believe it recently when our beaver leader told me that there had been complaints that she doesn't pay for her daughter to be a member of scouts. This lady runs not one, but two beaver colonies, giving up 2 evenings a week, and goes on numerous weekend events with the beavers. I think the least that could be offered is that her own daughter gets to go along free.

It's perfectly fair that you get to take DD. You sacrifice enough of your family time on admin/ training that DD gets no direct benefit from, so it's fair that she gets your time on the fun things.

My DSs accompany me on trips/ residentials. The two year old is negotiable (and was left while I did my pack holiday licence) but my 9 week old has to come with me as I EBF. They affect ratios and car spaces. For the Pack Holiday 3 weeks ago I was already having to take DS2, and gave the choice about DS1 to DH. He chose to be child free unsuprisingly! Because of their ages, one leader technically won't count, but because I have a PH licence and am fully warrented, it's worth me being there. On paper that means a less qualified leader/ unit helper can supervise my children, and made it easier for two other guiders to split the weekend around their other commitmements.

Two of our leaders team have daughters in the unit, and the daughters and leader come as a unit. Sometimes we have to include the ex-brownie-now-guide as one of them as she's a single parent. The other older daughter is a young leader so can attend and often gets a first choice in her own right.
The girls definately get more than their share of duff and cleaning jobs while we're sorting things out. They also end up being dragged to planning meetings, so enjoying the fun stuff is a fair reward.

Of course one of the 6 Brownie places should be given to the daughters of any adults who are giving up their weekend to take a group of Brownies to a special event!

When DD1 joined Brownies I mentioned to Brown Owl that myself or DH would be willing to come along as an extra pair of hands/provide transport/help out for special events or occasional meetings if an extra, CRB-checked, adult was required. My 'Young Leader' certificate has probably expired and I'm no longer in the young category but having loved Brownies and Guides as a child/teenager I'm keen to support the organisation and the volunteers who keep it going whilst not really being in a position to be a 'proper' leader as I don't get home from school in time.

If I were in the OP's position, any letters I sent home about places on events would clearly state that there are 5 places available per attending adult i.e. attending adult's DD plus 5 other Brownies. I'd add a line to the reply slip that says, "I, parent of X would like to attend this event with X and agree to help Brown Owl with the supervision of Brownies from the 1st Mumsnet Pack" and "I understand that priority will be given to Brownies whose parents are attending the event as adult helpers".

Massive round of applause for RocknRollNerd! The disruptive little shi£s parents are usually the first to moan about ANYTHING !!

Jesus wept

How on earth could any sane person think you are being unreasonable??

Sorry, I think the other parents are right. It sounds from your posts like you just would rather not go unless your child goes, rather than actually would be stuck for childcare. If you live with your child's father and he could spend the day with her instead of her coming with you, then it doesn't seem unreasonable for her to be selected as often as any other girl rather than every time

WHAT?

Why on earth shouldn't she go everytime even if she has a Dad able and willing to care for her? Her Mum is giving up her spare time to do it, anyone else's Mum can do the same if she wishes. The OP is taking 5 other children every single time while the other 40 odd parents do fuck all to help.

You take the risk of your dd being seen as a kind of 'teacher's pet' and resented by the other girls

What utter tripe - she will be seen as Brown Owl's daughter.

if you had a partner I might wonder why he was incapable of caring for his dd for a weekend

Beyond belief the OP might wonder why some of the other parents are incapable to looking after their own children