To refuse to allow my 12 yo DD to travel unaccompanied?

[ItsDecisionTime]

As part of a pending contact order, ExP who lives in the USA, is asking that our 12 year old DD travels as an unaccompanied minor on her flights from the UK to US (to save him the time and cost of collecting her). It goes against all my parenting instincts on the basis that if anything had to happen on those flights, it would be everyone for themselves. I know people do allow their kids to travel alone but for me, that's just lazy parenting and something I'd only consider in an absolute emergency. She has only just started going into our town on her own but only when she is with a friend. Personally, I can't even contemplate what kind of father would even push for it in court when he knows I'm so set against it.

Of course if the bus catches fire the child gets off disneymum.

In the event of a terribly turbulent journey the child can't get off, or ring home and if the stewards are have to have seatbelts on wont even have them for comfort. They might have a friendly stranger or a row alone or a complete knob head. But they can't even change seats and that's why I'd be more worried about a child on a plane than on a bus.

Bad turbulence is a quite likely occurrence though. Grown adults were gasping and crying quietly on my last flight. The flight attendants will be in their own seats and unable to comfort the child.

It depends on the teenager. It would be a lot for many 12 YOs to handle.

Handling things that are difficult makes for empowered, capable adults. Learning to do this before you leave home is actually important. I was working with violent offenders at 18. Something that I might have found a little tough had I not been regularly travelling alone at 11.

Individual's fears about what might go wrong on a flight are pretty irrelevant to be honest. The courts do order that children travel independently for access when circumstances are appropriate because arrangements can be made to keep children safe.

The fact that the father hasn't been willing to travel to see her himself and that she is able to express the view that she doesn't wish to travel to see him is much more to the point.

The judgement will be made on much less emotive grounds than whether a 12 year old would be scared of turbulence.

Let's separate the issues (again)

• So you don't want to send her unaccompanied - fine, then ask your ex to pay your return fare x 2, and you will bring her and take her home.

• How much contact has there been up until now? When did she last see him, and for how long? Has he only just moved to America, or has he been there for the last 6 years?

• What is the legal status? Is he a US citizen? Has this all been ordered by the court? What processes are in place to avoid kidnap? Are there other relatives out there (other grandparents, for example) to act as a support network, or is it just DD and her dad?

Travelling unaccompanied is NOT the main problem. Going to a foreign country to see an estranged parent with whom there seems to be a breakdown of contact and trust (with you) IS a big issue. Tell us about that one instead, then you may get more YANBUs

My mind boggles at some of this! 'She can't go because no one can comfort her during air turbulence'?! Fights will break out! Do people really thing that it is good for a child to be brought up that the world is a big bad place and you are only safe glued to mummy?

She is 12 yrs old-explain about air turbulence first and I would have though the staff on the plane would have been much better at calming her because she would assume they knew far more about it than her mother.

What exactly are you going to do if a fight breaks out? I would leave it to the staff to sort out.

Any child between about 9 and 18 can't go away from mother because they may have a period!

I am very surprised that the axe murderer hasn't come into it yet!!

These are people who I assume take their DCs out in the car most days, where they are far more likely to be involved in a crash and yet they don't think about it!

Ah that's nothing. I remember an Unaccompanied Minor thread where the main concern was what happens if the teenager child spills a drink.

..or wants something from overhead bin and can't reach. The horror.

I'm 5ft2" and can't reach stuff in the overhead box. Maybe I should be allowed on planes unaccompanied.

My niece had her first period on a long distance railway journey with her father, who she only saw at weekends. They had no "supplies" at all, and he had to ask likely looking strangers until he found one with a packet of sanitary towels in her bag. They all survived.

I used to travel as an UM and it didn't bother me. I now use BA for my kids when they are travelling as UMs, and I've been very happy with how they have been looked after (and they love the UM lounge at Heathrow!) But I also plan for problems and make sure they have a bit of money, snacks, DSs, chargers, books to read and so on. I've brought them up to be able to look after themselves a bit, but also to stand up for themselves and get help when necessary.

I am also aware that the risk of problems on the plane in very small and
I don't think they are any more or less likely to survive a stampede than if I was with them (I am disabled so couldn't get them off easily anyway).

I think if you prepare them for potential delays and so on they are a lot less fazed than you would think. Generally I think it's been pretty good for my kids to have this experience, and they are all good travellers now.

Oh yes, and periods are great when Dads are around. They generally panic a bit and give you endless tenners for sanitary protection because they have no idea how much it costs and what you really need. Not that I ever tried that on, you understand.

My DD, who is 8, is going to the US as an UM in four weeks' time. She went last year, as a 7 year old. Children travel all over the world as UMs all the time.

Unless the OP HEs, or lives in Balamory, she hands her child over to the care of "strangers" (new teachers, supply teachers, transient TAs) regularly, so she should stop casting aspersions at anyone who does the same thing.

I also travelled UM regularly from the age of 8. We got snowed in at Heathrow for 48 hours one January - they put us all up in a hotel, it was a fantastic adventure.

OP, you have perfectly valid reasons for objecting to this plan. Stick to them, express them clearly, and do not dilute them with paranoid nonsense about unaccompanied flying.

Maryz

Yes I agree with Squeaky. The point is this child is expected to travel alone for the sake of visiting someone who absolutely refuses to spend time with her in the UK despite her pleas and tears...she doesn't want to go anyway, had previously (before it suited him) agreed when we were together that children travelling unaccompanied was not something for us.

I think everyone on this thread who airily claims they were travelling unaccompanied quite happily probably knew quite well where they were going and who they were going to spend time with.

This is throwing a child in at the deep end, and frankly the UM debate is irrelevant.

What a horrible situation for an unwilling child to have to face.

The lack of sympathy for the OP and her DD is quite astonishing really. So what if she comes across as being judgemental? She's hardly judging anyone here personally. She is simply making her own feelings known and quite frankly in her particular circumstances, I don't blame her.

OP made the mistake of bringing in the travel- which is perfectly reasonable- it is a pity that it then sidelined people from the real issues.

Absolutely.

The thread title is about the travel! When what it should be about is the child's relationship-or lack thereof- with her father. But it's little wonder it got derailed- subjects like unaccompanied minors travelling always bring out the tinfoil hat brigade.

Well, in that case, if I were the OP I would take my DD over personally, spend a holiday together there, and meet up with the father face to face during that time to say the DD was genuinely distressed about being dispatched like a parcel to see him, and could we all think up a compromise that made her happier. I would be all nice and civilised during any meetings and try to keep things positive.

Lots of people pointing out how wonderful / helpful UM flying is- which is great if that's what both parents have agreed to do . However, in this case both parents categorically agreed in advance that this was a route they were not willing to use. Now, 6 years later, the father decides he can't be arsed to come to the UK after all and so he wants to renege on the agreement and make his daughter fly alone.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of UM flying, there is absolutely no reason why the father cannot come to visit the child. Based on the OP's posts, it appears that he just refuses to come to the UK. There may be undisclosed reasons related to his health or perhaps US citizenship requirements that mean he can't fly- in which case the OP and the father need to come to a mutually acceptable agreement.

There is just no need for a 12yo to have to fly alone in this case- she doesn't want to, the parents had previously agreed that she shouldn't, and the father is perfectly capable of coming to the UK but chooses not to. And yes, it's important for both parents to ensure that contact continues while children are too young to make the decision for them - that doesn't mean that the NRP gets to sit on their arse on the other side of the world and summon their children to them via the cheapest possible method.

However, in this case both parents categorically agreed in advance that this was a route they were not willing to use

Things change. Many parents 'agree' to spend the rest of their lives together - but subsequently change their minds.

On the basis of her original OP, the OP is BU to refuse to allow her DD to travel and if she fights a specific issue order on the grounds she has set out here, them it is highly unlikely she will convince the court.
If there are other considerations that make the proposal for the DD to have contact with her Dad at his home inappropriate, then that is a separate issue and one the OP would undoubtedly receive sound advice about on the legal or lone parent board.

In this case, clearly the father has changed his mind. But why does that mean everyone else has to jump? The OP is not trying to stop contact- the father could come over to the UK.

I just do not understand why so many people are so adamant that a father's right to simply refuse to travel trumps a child's right to avoid being forced to make a solo transatlantic journey she's frightened of to see a man who has barely bothered with her for 6 years.

"ust do not understand why so many people are so adamant that a father's right to simply refuse to travel trumps a child's right to avoid being forced to make a solo transatlantic journey she's frightened of to see a man who has barely bothered with her for 6 years."

They aren't. People are saying that there are two separate issues. The flight, on which the OP is on very shaky ground, and the child being wary of seeing a father she has barely seen for 6 years, on which the OP is on very firm ground.