To refuse to allow my 12 yo DD to travel unaccompanied?

[ItsDecisionTime]

As part of a pending contact order, ExP who lives in the USA, is asking that our 12 year old DD travels as an unaccompanied minor on her flights from the UK to US (to save him the time and cost of collecting her). It goes against all my parenting instincts on the basis that if anything had to happen on those flights, it would be everyone for themselves. I know people do allow their kids to travel alone but for me, that's just lazy parenting and something I'd only consider in an absolute emergency. She has only just started going into our town on her own but only when she is with a friend. Personally, I can't even contemplate what kind of father would even push for it in court when he knows I'm so set against it.

"Lots of people might be horrified of the very idea of UMs but the judge may not be one of those people."

The judge categorically won't be one of those people.

I would be horrified if he/she was.

I flew from Spain to England alone at the age of 10 and had a great adventure! I was with a memeber of cabin crew from being waved off by my parents at Valencia, through to being collected by my dgm at Gatwick.

Everyone made a massive fuss of me and I was allowed into the cockpit to meet the pilot. I loved it! :)

I would be more amazed than horrified but the whole thread has been a bit of an eye-opener tbh.

Can you book a chaperone or something like that ?

Travelling as an unacompanied minor is exactly that, the airline will provide a chaperone, there is a fee, beginning and end of independent terms the airlines are full of schoolchildren, other times just a handful of children.

British Airways have a dedicated and secure lounge for unacompanied children, the lounge is kitted out with with playstations, computers etc. The service is superb.

After over 250 posts people still haven't understood UM- I can only think they haven't read it all.

And nobody will specify the "things that might go wrong" when in a plane being supervised by an accredited, experienced adult!

Ah, just caught up with the rest of your posts op. If your dd doesn't want to do it then YANBU.

Got similar situ - from the NRP POV it is of course going to make sense that the child travels alone as the time and cost involved in ex ptnr travelling and collecting child is considerable. However I also have DD who categorically doesnt want to travel without a parent, she finds flying scary at best of times and this is making her more stressed about the arrangements. Good luck working it out.

yes children can officially travel 2 ways,

as a young person travelling alone- airline will keep an eye on them.
or
as an unacompanied minor - which means they are NOT travelling accompanied but being chaperoned in a secure manner by a member of the airline's staff

The things mentioned as 'going wrong' are the DC being scared by air turbulance, in which case I would have thought that the experienced staff where much more calming than mother. Secondly , being scared to ask to go to the toilet- easily organised with a quick word before you hand them over. Thirdly a fight breaking out- staff are trained to deal with it- and are best left to it. Someone , rather insultingly, said that the staff wouldn't do their job and the DC would be abandoned in an emergency.
I think that people are rather overestimating how helpful they could manage to be to their DC in a real emergency situation.

I flew unaccompanied at 8 years old to the West Indies. Loved it. I also work at a summer school where all our kids aged 8-17 travel unaccompanied from around the world and we pick them up from the airport. Never had a problem with hundreds And hundreds of kids coming in and out over the last 6 years.

I should add that that includes at least 20 different airlines from 25 countries. All been great.

Regarding the UM situation, it is similar to being on a school trip in terms of ratios, standards of care and so on.

Pouncer and fabergeegg, they do have adults to care for them. As I said, an analogy to what happens is the type of care they would receive at school, and the vast majority of people are quite happy to wave their kids off on school trips of all sorts, so it's not abandoning them at all.

Once we dispatched DS1 to summer camp abroad and there was a very long delay before the summer camp people picked him up at the other end, as something had gone wrong. He basically was given a carer to sit with him 1:1 all that time who plied him with food, drink and magazines and generally keeping his spirits up. DS1 took a picture of this chap on his DS and we are talking cheerful avuncular type anyone would be happy to leave their kids with. Really, it's OK.

Well, not the update I expected to give you guys today.

Went to court this morning, as has been pre-arranged for 3 weeks. Met with my solicitor an hour before the hearing. Ex's barrister turned up and was a real ball breaker. She provoked me right from the start (before my solicitor turned up), telling me how it WAS going to be and that we shouldn't let the judge make the decision as it would be the wrong one for everyone. I said I had faith that the judge would make a fair decision as to do otherwise would result in an appeal. She said she found my naive innocence amusing.

Move forward to the hearing time. No judge, no video link, no Exp. ExP barrister called him to say they had some logistical problems with the video link and he was still in bed, 10 miles from where he was supposed to be - 15 minutes after he was supposed to be on the link.

One of my arguments against DD Unaccompanied Travel TO the US is he is too unreliable firstly to make the right arrangements and secondly to turn up to collect her and drop her at the assigned times. Which he is and he just proved it. His barrister is fuming.

So, I just spent £600 for 3 hours of my solicitor's time for absolutely nothing. Nobody knows what happened to the judge or why the video link wasn't tested ahead of time.

His barrister suggested, without discussing it with Exp, that one potential solution to overcome the deadlock would be to have a guardian assigned to DD who then liaises with her own legal representative who makes sure her own views are understood and communicated back to the court. I'm in favour of this but don't have any experience of knowledge of it - If anyone does, advice would be welcome.

One final point - why is it that during proceedings like this, the mother's role as primary (or only) parent is downgraded to manipulating and coaching the child? My DD is well-rounded, smart, funny, happy, popular, focused, well-mannered and secure. I have been her only parent for virtually all her life. Where is the evidence to suggest she has been given anything but a good, responsible upbringing? Not saying I'm perfect at all but I've done my best and for some hard faced cow to try and turn that round to something sinister is absolutely disgusting.

Rant over!

So, I just spent £600 for 3 hours of my solicitor's time for absolutely nothing. Well, no you have proof ex-H is unreliable and a bit useless. May well be worth more than 600 quid to you in terms of proving your point.

On the point of your role being downgraded. I would refuse to talk to ex-H's representation without yours present. That way your solicitor deals with it, not you.

Thanks for updating.

Don't bother getting angry with Ex's solicitor - it's her job to try to make you feel intimidated. Her client - your Ex - sounds like such a waste of space that she probably figures it'd be easier to get you to capitulate than to show him in a good light.

It's proven how bothered your Ex is about seeing his daughter - not only can he not be bothered to come to the UK, he can't even be arsed to get out of bed for the court hearing. What a shame there was no judge having their time wasted by him.

I absolutely sympathise with your "final point".

If your ExP wanted the kind of relationship with his DD that would enable him to manipulate and coach her, why doesn't he get one? (Not saying you manipulate and coach her, just that you would have the opportunity to do so, if you chose, which he does not, because he doesn't choose to have that opportunity.

That hard faced cow is clearly facing an impossible task. How is she going to present your ex as a reasonable, responsible father who is being deprived of time he desperately wants with his daughter if the lazy sod can't even be bothered to get out of bed for a hearing?

She must be clutching at straws because his behaviour is going to result in an outcome that doesn't do her professional reputation any favours.

Don't let her upset you. Your DD knows you and that's all that really matters.

about the flying, i would not like it either, but the explanation of the process and all that signing for seems pretty safe. it would depend on whether the child was confident to fly alone. neither of mine seem like they would be, but then i thought dd would not like nursery as she was a cling on, but she skipped in at age just 3 so thing may change by the time she is 12!

the fact that your daughterr is not keen is the key. a little nervous, fair enough she should cope, but in bits, no way. also she does not seem to have a relationship with her dad.

as to the court hearing. make sure that the judge knows he did not turn up to the previous one and good luck.

I suspect YOU are more worried about flying than about your daughter travelling. If She is up or it, let her go. She will be fine.

OP why are you upset with your ex's barrister. Your dd should have representation, that is the best way for her to have her views heard. It's also a fairly standard arrangement, I'm surprised your lawyer didn't suggest it.

Otherwise it seems generally very odd. You went to court and there was no judge?

I'm not upset with my ex's barrister for suggesting DD has representation!!! I'm annoyed that in her capacity as a human being and as a woman that she dared to suggest that DDs upbringing was in some way sinister.

My solicitor didn't suggest it because we've been on the verge of agreement SO many times only for ex to change his position so much we are now in deadlock. She has suggested it now though so all's well and all that.

And yes, there was no judge because he travelled from another court to be there because my ex insisted on using a video link and the only one available was in the next town.

If you read the other posts nooka you'll perhaps grasp the history of the OP.