To be totally over the way people let other people treat them at Christmas

[Tee2072]

rather than speaking up for themselves?

Yes, it's a fred about many many many freds.

You're all adults. Act like adults.

Someone insults you, say something.

Someone hurts your feelings, say something.

Someone leaves you out of something, say something.

Fuck 'keeping the peace' and 'not causing a rift'. They have already caused the rift by upsetting you. What do you have to lose except toxic, rude, obnoxious people in your life?!?!?!?

Tee my grandad rang me up Xmas morning. As soon as I said hello he went on about me smoking. He then said you will get cancer and that will be then end of you. You will die. I just put the phone down.

My dad then rang him back telling me to apologise! I told dad I will not be apologising after what he said. My dad then tried making excuses saying he wouldn't have said it then he will have been joking. I told him that's not how you greet someone on Xmas day. Especially someone who has lost people over cancer and refused to speak to him.

I'm the bad one now. I ruined Xmas for everyone.

Nope. Your grandad did. And that's your answer when they say you did.

I know he did. I left my dad's not long after that. All others there got a merry Xmas and asked how they were and that's what I got.

I won't be apologising

I do agree, but, if you've grown up in an abusive/otherwise difficult family, it can be a long learning process. I'm 43, and it literally is only in the past 5 or 6 years that I have even noticed the times when I'm being treated badly or taken advantage of.

It isn't even a question of thinking: "Yup, that's unfair, but it's all I deserve." It's a step further back even than that, where it is all just absolutely normal. The way things are. You know that you feel like crap, but you have no idea why.

Quite often, I think, people who seem frustratingly passive on here have only started getting to the first step, where they're looking at years of behaviour that they accepted completely, without even thinking about it, and truly seeing it as it is. I tend to be quite blunt with these people, but not in a "But it's EASY, just SAY something" way. Because it isn't easy.

You want me to leave my own thread? Who made you the thread police? Or my teacher?

I expressed my opinion. Others are allowed there own opinions as well. I will read them or not read them as I please.

Just as you have and everyone else here.

Are you new? Because you sure act it.

She should leave the thread for asking uncomfortable questions?
This thread isn't in Relationships, where it might be too sensitive for people living in challenging situations. It's in AIBU, where some of us still don't have answers to simplistic questions like 'Why put up with being a doormat?'
It's interesting that the few who have changed their passive acceptance of seem to be those who don't want their children to be subject to the same unreasonable and manipulative behaviour that they have been. So they seem to know that it's wrong and that there are choices.
Perhaps it does seem simple to those of us on the outside, or those of us involved in the development of young people's self esteem and sense of worth.

Boojum (leaving aside intra-thread spats ;) ) - can only speak from my own experience, but there's probably something in that. In my case, I only saw the way my older sister was treating me when I began to see her behaviour through the eyes of my children. After that it was a short step to start considering the effect it would have on them. Things that I hadn't even noticed suddenly became glaringly obvious.

I think there comes a point where it is simple though. Over the years it goes all the way through complicated and out the other side into simplicity again. You can either leave a toxic relationship or you can die within it. Whether it's with a partner, with your parents, with friends, whoever (it doesn't have to be about violence either). Stay or go, it is a choice.

Maybe the OP got tired of waiting for the nasty people to stop being nasty of their own accord and wanted to ask why more don't challenge the behaviour in order to highlight the need for change.

Wow. That was incredibly clumsy.

You don't know me or what I've been through to get to the point where I don't let anyone treat me like shit.

Including a 2 bit arm chair psychologist on the Internet.

So perhaps not new. Just a bit like a friend if mine who is a bit thick.

Cachaca, becoming a parent simplified a lot of things for me too.
You look at the world you want your children to live in and contrast it with your own childhood and start spring-cleaning.

The posts on here to which you are referring are from those at the beginning of the journey, surely? Slagging posters off for not being as enlightened as you, op, seems unkind.

Practical suggestions and support, as well as recognition that enforcing boundaries can often lead to reactions that are other than the bucking up of ideas, might reap greater rewards for you and the posters. Unless you are getting something else out of being harsh.

Tee
I don't actually know the girls in question, but did think about getting involved in the bible class - the woman running the Sunday school has this hilarious sarcasm thing going on. I'm going to get involved and see if she is always like this and might take the kids out of Sunday school If she is (they go with my parents)

Or we could just back off, accept that some people live in abusive and inexplicable family relationships and leave them to it.

We should just accept that for some people, life is like that and thank our lucky stars that it isn't us or people we love.

I can't think of any specific thing really, boojum. Seeing my new friends with normal families, having people treat me like a person worth spending time with and not putting me down all the time.

Main thing has been living with dp and the DC. From the outside it's screamingly obvious how unhealthy the relationships are. My DC are all equal, I can't mark any out as favourite and I can't get my head around how the family members who do have a favourite managed to choose one.

Am so much happier than I used to be when I was involved in the toxic way they love.

Live not love!

I thought 'toxic way they love' was quite fitting really.
So, it was seeing what normal looked like, seeing other relationships and their bases that helped you develop a sense of perspective.
Your partner should hopefully be someone who has a different attitude to how relationships work, and to have made a healthier one with you.

Hmm. I don't know. Tee's question was provocative but perhaps a shock is what some people need to actually see what is in front of them.

I know that once my DH pointed out how my mum treats me, I started to notice too. (not particularly nasty, just thoughtless put downs but over the years they did have an affect on my self esteem)

My mum would be horrified to read this, btw as she thinks she is a great mum. And she is generally but she has a way of taking the wind out of my sails and making me not believe in myself.

When I noticed I was doing it to DH and to the kids, I knew it was time to do something about it.

There are support threads on MN for those escaping abusive relationships or families. Why not have this thread for discussing how they come about and how to avoid our kids becoming the next victims?

I'm very interested in ways to boost children's self esteem.

Nebulous
What if your child became involved with a person from such a family? Would you still want to back off?

It is in all our interests to challenge this. IMO abusive behaviour can be recognised from an early age.

How many of you had a school friend who was practiced in emotional blackmail?

'If you are friends with her then I'm not your friend anymore!'

'You said you were my friend but you never want to do what I want'

A friend who always wanted to be with you, yet ridiculed you in front of others to make themselves look good.

Manipulative children grow into manipulative adults.

Ensuring that our children recognise this personality trait could be one of the most important lessons we teach them.

The best way to boost a child s esteem imo is very often to boost your own. Show them what boundaries look like, show them how grown ups interact in a friendly respectful way - modelling self esteem is the best way to give them self esteem. Give them discipline and structure with humiliating them and without crushing their own choices > Praise them for effort rather than outcomes. TELL THEM YOU LOVE THEM UNCONDITIONALLY

ML we may have the same mother.

And I would hope anyone reading this would take it in the spirit it is intended, i.e. a bit of a wake up call, maybe a bit of 'slagging off' but with tough love behind it. And before anyone asks, I do talk like this in real life. And it has lost me friends. No one really wants to hear the truth about how fucked up their life is. But I cannot stay quiet if I see a friend in pain and I think all they need is to hear how to stop the pain.

As I said above, no one here really knows what my childhood was like. You weren't there and I've only mentioned it a time or two in passing. Despite what many people think, I don't live my life on the internet and there are many many things I don't talk about here or anywhere else that is public.

That doesn't mean my life is perfect or that I've always practised what I am 'preaching' here.

This thread was started after thread upon thread about what horrible days some people had was posted today and yesterday here on MN. Honestly, I was saving myself time; rather than post on each thread, I started this one.

If helps someone great. If people think I'm a bitch, oh well, I may very well be.

But I'm a bitch with good intentions.

And we all know what the road to hell is paved with...

Be the person you want them to be and protect them from any bastards who want to hurt them - weather they are friends or family only expose your children to people that are good for them. GP for instance do not have a right to a relationship with your children unless its in the child interest