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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be totally over the way people let other people treat them at Christmas

248 replies

Tee2072 · 26/12/2012 09:48

rather than speaking up for themselves?

Yes, it's a fred about many many many freds.

You're all adults. Act like adults.

Someone insults you, say something.

Someone hurts your feelings, say something.

Someone leaves you out of something, say something.

Fuck 'keeping the peace' and 'not causing a rift'. They have already caused the rift by upsetting you. What do you have to lose except toxic, rude, obnoxious people in your life?!?!?!?

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 26/12/2012 13:11

ML Yes, it is. As is child abuse, grooming, etc. My point being that once it is recognized, or pointed out, as such, the only answer is to walk. Not to whimper and complain. And, as someone just pointed out, that was not the point of the thread to begin with anyway!

Boney I don't know. I can't answer that. All I know is my own experience of women in this country being nice no matter what. And whispering. What's that about? My mother in law does it. Most of the women I used to work with do it.

OP posts:
ReindeerHooves · 26/12/2012 13:12

I agree with Tee and Hec.

I think that learning that you are able to remove yourself from a situation or that it's OK to tell people that they must treat you better or get the fuck out of your life is an extremely important lesson to learn and not victim blaming at all. This is true of both DV and unacceptable family behaviour and any other situation where other people treat you badly.

I just wish that someone had taught me that as a child and that I could take my own advice - I am getting better at it but I still backslide from time to time.

autumnlights12 · 26/12/2012 13:13

I told my Mother In Law to Fuck Off about 6 months ago. She so totally deserved it. She'd told my middle dd that she was plump, told my other dd that having a vaccination could kill her and written offensive comments about me which she copied to several others in a group email. I'd had enough. I told her to fuck off and told her what I thought of her.

dreamingbohemian · 26/12/2012 13:15

I totally agree that it's really fucking hard to be assertive and walk away from abusive or bad behaviour.

It's still the best thing to do though, and we should be encouraging it everywhere we can. Empathy is important but it can go too far and become enabling.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 13:17

The toxic ones are the ones who have learned to take advantage of the ' nice' ones because no one has said NO to them - so they learn their behaviour works. It is possible to be a healthy inbetween and I think a lot of people are they just have no need to post !

dreamingbohemian · 26/12/2012 13:17

autumn good for you! what happened, did she freak out?

I basically told my (toxic) mum to fuck off earlier this year, she was a nightmare for months but now has totally come around and is being normal for the time being. I should have done it years ago.

Tee2072 · 26/12/2012 13:18

It's absolutely not easy and I never said it was. Or if I did, I was wrong!

In any case, I'm still learning how to do it some myself, especially with my mother, but I am getting better and better the more I do it.

What's really helped is that I run my own company. If I don't speak up for myself professionally, no one else will. So I'm using that in my personal life as well.

OP posts:
noddyholder · 26/12/2012 13:27

My mother has ruined Xmas and a good few other family things every year and I am 47! Earlier this year I challenged her as we had all had enough and she hasn't spoken to me since. It bothered me for months and I did wonder about Xmas but it was great this year. My sister and her dp came and we all had the first relaxing day ever. We all noticed it and it was a revelation. You do not have to take shit from these people just because you are related. My mum was on her own with my step dad as I was the last person she had note fallen out with now she has no one whereas our house was full of people who wanted to be there and we're greatful and happy. I so recommend not having negative people in your lives no matter who they are life is too short I wasted years trying to please her and am free now. Best Xmas I have ever had x

dreamingbohemian · 26/12/2012 13:27

I became more assertive in my personal life after studying/working in a male-dominated environment, which is kind of sad actually, that I needed that.

JingleUpTheHighway · 26/12/2012 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JingleUpTheHighway · 26/12/2012 13:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sweetkitty · 26/12/2012 13:42

I got fed up with my mother treating me like shit, trying to make me feel down and bad about myself all the time. When she started to pick on my DC enough was enough, I'm not going to allow someone to abuse me because in her words "you only get one mother" well you do and mine is shit.

I stopped calling and visiting her, she sent me a letter saying everything was my fault, I think I'm better than her always have done, she's never felt welcome in my house even though her money and gifts were etc. So I sent her money back and didn't contact her again, that's been 4 years. I miss having a Mum but don't miss her.

DP has pulled his Mum up about things before (she's dead now) but she was very opinionated, everything was her way, his sister tolerated her but DP stood up and said wait a minute I don't agree with you. She modified her behaviour in later years.

Please don't allow anyone to treat you like crap just because they are family.

Tee2072 · 26/12/2012 13:50

Jingle the threads have all blurred into one mass of Christmas unhappiness, so it may have included yours, I'm not sure.

But good for you for speaking up today, at least. I hope it works.

OP posts:
SuoceraBlues · 26/12/2012 13:51

What I don't understand is why so many people feel obliged

I think it is possible that the concept of what is reasonable and what is not becomes warped over time. Politness initially hampered me. Later when my politness muscle was getting too many bouts of cramps to carry on I found I'd left it a bit late. Cos I think when I am surrounded by very many people who think I am the one out of step with how one should react to statements, impositions, behavoirs etc then over time I start to doubt my own measuring stick as being accurate. When I am near them at all at any rate.

Or at least, that is how I have felt quite often. Intellectually I know my stick is the "normal" one. But in a sea of dissenting voices who characterise me as the "difficult" "boat rocking" one, I end up feeling like it is me that is out of step with the "right" way to deal with thngs. It all feels very surreal when it is happening.

And they have had decade upon decade of practice with this. I am the last of more than one generation who have married in and been brought into line. I get tied in knots cos they are many, and have an answer for everything, tag team, mark my card with any non family members who happen to be in the vicinity as soon as humanly possible (who then meet me with tanglible preconcpetions, making me even more offf kilter and defnesive, which I don't doubt helps confirm their preconceptions that the issue is me becuase I'm sure I come accross as wound very tight by the time they speak to me in a slightyly sneery tone) speak over me and take advange of the fact that this is all being done in my second language (which gets dodgy when I am tired, stressed or getting defensive). When I come away, the fog lifts and reality comes back into play. I resolve to do things differnetly tommorow. Then tommorow comes and all my stratagies bounce off their determined status quo like arrows made of warm butter being fired at an iron clad fort.

I want MIL to survive her current hospitalisation. But part of me is looking forward to another time in the future when she is gone, and I never have to clap eyes on any of these people ever again.

And there is every possibility that some posters are right, that I am colluding with this happening. But after 18 years, in the knowledge of the awful repucussions for people I love when I did put my foot down and refuse to participate in this dynamic in the early years, plus the current MIL based complications, I just don't know what I can to do make it different. It is taking everything I have to put one foot in front of the other, organise so DS is at firends' houses as much as possible to maintain as much normality as humanly possible, support DH and meet MIL's needs.

What a fucking mess. I know how I got here. But I still don't fully understand how I let myself get here. I don't want to be on this merry go round, but it has been speeding up surrepticously over the years, has no intension of stopping so I can get my family off safely and jumping off in mid spin cycle looks far worse than hunkering down and trying to wait it out till the "engine" dies, we hold her funeral and then I can then step off and walk away, more or less whole, from the fairground

Probably all the above proves is that I am weak, scared (and knackered). But I didn't start out this way, I just sort of got whittled away over time. Especially the last six months, which have been awful. And I didn't notice till too much of me was gone.

Hopefully only temporarily. I still seem to be intact and prepared to stand my ground when it comes to other people. When we get to cut the ties with DH's family I immagine I'll avoid finding myself here again.

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 13:51

so this thread is about domestic violence?

My mistake. That was not my understanding of the OP or the thread

Mine neither.

It was raspberryroop that brought DV into it as far as I can see. the conversation digressed as happens often on forums.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 13:57

I did indeed - because always deferring, letting people put you down, discounting you, treating you as if your opinion doesn't matter and objectified you are behaviours common to all bullies

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 13:58

raspberryroop

So Amber Nothing a woman can do can stop DV ever???

There are ways a woman can escape it yes, there are red flags women can be aware of to protect herself from abusive people yes.

But you said DV starts with women and the choices they make, I disagree. It starts with the abuser abusing them.

Blame is on the abuser, blame meaning responsibility for a fault or wrong, the wrong being the abuse.

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 14:00

raspberryroop, I didnt think there was a problem with you bringing DV into it at all, I was just responding to Hec.

Your point re bullies behavior is relevant IMO.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 14:03

I have never said women are to blame but the way you were talking was IF there was nothing a woman could do and that no choices she made EVER MADE Dv more likely

TheNebulousBoojum · 26/12/2012 14:08

'I know men who witnessed domestic voilence growing up, they are not abusive because they choose not to be despite what they have grown up around.'

So we should all just wait for unpleasant, manipulative and nasty people to choose to change?
Really?

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 14:10

raspberryroop, you said it starts with women, on that point I think you are wrong.

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 14:14

'I know men who witnessed domestic voilence growing up, they are not abusive because they choose not to be despite what they have grown up around.'

^So we should all just wait for unpleasant, manipulative and nasty people to choose to change?
Really?^

Erm, did I say anything like that? Confused

I said growing up around abuse doesn't automatically mean you will be abusive. adults can choose how they will behave.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 14:22

AMber it starts with a women's self esteem and sense of worth in most cases that sent MH issues.

Charliefox · 26/12/2012 14:24

I'm with you. If someone said anything to me like the kind of stuff you read on here, I'd go batshit crazy. In-laws and relations that said one word out of place would be shown the door and it would be bolted behind them. Thankfully, I'm not surrounded by people like that but I'd be doing a very strict edit if I was.

TheNebulousBoojum · 26/12/2012 14:24

Why should an adult who has been insensitive, manipulative and selfish choose to change?
Life is just peachy for them, they get their way and license to behave however they like whilst others either roll over or say nothing. The world is their metaphorical oyster.
Why change?
Unless they come up against a refuser, a protester or someone who sets out exactly what their choices are bad ones and the consequences if they don't change. Or someone who says 'You can stop, or leave' Or someone who leaves themselves.
I just don't understand how you think unacceptable behaviour will change without external pressure being applied.