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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be totally over the way people let other people treat them at Christmas

248 replies

Tee2072 · 26/12/2012 09:48

rather than speaking up for themselves?

Yes, it's a fred about many many many freds.

You're all adults. Act like adults.

Someone insults you, say something.

Someone hurts your feelings, say something.

Someone leaves you out of something, say something.

Fuck 'keeping the peace' and 'not causing a rift'. They have already caused the rift by upsetting you. What do you have to lose except toxic, rude, obnoxious people in your life?!?!?!?

OP posts:
AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 12:22

DV starts with the choices women make?

Seriously?

So you believe that it is the fault of victims of DV for making poor choices?

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:23

Fanno the hitting dons' t come out of nowhere it's usually the culmination of lots of other behaviours that women have chosen to put up with. It may not be very PC but if they walked away from potentially abusive and controlling behaviour before it escalates then the would be less DV. If girls were taught to be more assertive and less nice and accommodating there would be less DV and if consequential less children grew up with DV as the norm there would be less perpetuation.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:25

AmberI think it's because girls are taught to make poor choices and to put up with shot men

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:25

Shit men

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly · 26/12/2012 12:27

Of course it is the fault of the person doing it. It is always their fault. 100% their fault. It's never your fault that someone else is a twat to you.

It's simply that just because it's their fault - doesn't mean you're not the one suffering!

If I know that there is a driver who goes down a certain road at 3pm every day, and doesn't stop, and he's knocked me over ten times already, and I cross the road and get knocked over, it is the fault of the driver - but it is ME that has the broken bones.

I can't stop the driver from driving like a cunt. He's run me over before, he doesn't give a shit, he'll run me over again.

It's his fault, but I suffer for it.

I don't see that as victim blaming.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:27

The freedom program is a'll about boundaries and choices UNless you empower someone to make the right choices you are forever condemning them to be victims

BinksToEnlightenment · 26/12/2012 12:28

I'm alright for the bull in a china shop attitude to diplomacy, OP. Thanks all the same for the tip.

I know you won't mind if I give it to you with both barrels Wink

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 12:30

It sounds like you think there is a certain 'type' of women that makes these poor choices and picks these 'shit' men.

You are wrong though.

It takes all sorts.

if they walked away from potentially abusive and controlling behaviour before it escalates then the would be less DV

I get your points about the way women can be conditioned etc, but I am not comfortable with your blatent victim blaming here.

There would be less DV if men stopped hitting.

What about the choices men make? who is to blame for that?

MerryLindor · 26/12/2012 12:30

Many put up with it because they've been conditioned that it is normal.

And they have endured years of emotional abuse that has brought them to this point. It takes a LOT of support, self awareness and sheer bloody guts to stand up and say, ENOUGH.

I do get what you mean, Tee but I don't think that I can judge someone who can't find that courage, as they have been trained into thinking nothing of themselves.

We were at church on Sunday and a few of the young Bible Class attendees got up and spoke. Some were so utterly lacking in self confidence, it was shocking. I wanted to shake them and say, LOOK AT YOURSELF. You are young, talented, clever and funny. Believe in yourself.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:31

H puts it sooooooo much better than me

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:36

YOu might not be comfortable with it bit AMber it's part of your conditioning not mine and yes it does not cover every instance of DV but most cases and I have extensive 1st hand experience - it is the culmination of a set of behaviours

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 12:36

I see what you're saying Hec, but that sounds a bit like the old chestnut of if women don't go out at night they wont get raped.

It is victim blaming however you dress it up.

Relationships are a tad more complex than crossing/walking down rods aren't they?

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly · 26/12/2012 12:38

I disagree that it is blaming the victim to say that they suffer from something that is done to them even though it is not their fault that it was done to them. The fact that it was categorically not their fault in no way lessens their pain.

Can you explain to me how that is blaming them for what was done?

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 12:39

YOu might not be comfortable with it bit AMber it's part of your conditioning not mine

Sorry, what?

AmberLeaf · 26/12/2012 12:40

Hec because you are implying that if they chose to be somewhere else then it woulodnt hapoen to them.

Fair point in your analogy, but with regard DV its a bit more complex than that.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:43

99% of thease men do not get up after a life time as nice guys and decide today I' m gonna hit the wife.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly · 26/12/2012 12:47

so this thread is about domestic violence?

My mistake. That was not my understanding of the OP or the thread.

raspberryroop · 26/12/2012 12:47

So Amber Nothing a woman can do can stop DV ever???

Original poster
Tee2072 · 26/12/2012 12:52

Sorry, I'm not well and went to have a lie down, I'm not ignoring you all.

Yes, I am blaming the victim. Because you don't have to be a victim. Maybe that means changing your behaviour or your reaction to their behaviour, because they probably aren't going to change theirs.

I'm not saying it's a person's fault if they are in the wrong place in the wrong time i.e. if they are raped or attacked or what have you. But if you are being 'beaten up' whether physically or emotionally by the same people over and over again and doing nothing? You deserve some of the blame.

You can't change other people. You can change yourself. And there's a fuck ton of help out there do to just that. There are no excuses for staying within a D&V situation or to let your parents treat you like shit. None.

Not an opinion that's going to win me any friends, I'm well aware. Flame me all you want and insist I can't blame someone in those situations.

Yes. I can. If you're in that situation? Get out. Now. Run. Grab your kids and just go. Find a shelter. Do something rather than stand there and let someone hit you or belittle you or do whatever they are doing to make you think you deserve that.

You don't. No one does. But you have to take the first step to stop it.

OP posts:
Onezerozero · 26/12/2012 12:54

I didn't read the OP as being about DV.

I thought it was more about all the DHs who 'didn't have time' to get a present, the DCs who didn't bother to say thank you, the houseguests who didn't help with any washing up, the relatives who bitched about your parenting skills and the XHs who were late and then rude in front of DC.

Original poster
Tee2072 · 26/12/2012 13:03

That's because my OP had nothing to do with DV, Onezerozero. Others brought DV into it for some reason known only to themselves.

OP posts:
dreamingbohemian · 26/12/2012 13:03

It's basically all about women being treated like shit though.

It's really mind-boggling to read MN at xmas time. I can't believe what some people put up with.

MerryLindor · 26/12/2012 13:03

Tee
There is a lot of truth in what you say, but it is too simplistic.

People don't become victims of DV overnight. It is an insidious process, deliberate on the part of the abuser.

MerryLindor · 26/12/2012 13:04

And in the same way, women don't become doormats to their families overnight.

BoneyBackJefferson · 26/12/2012 13:05

Tee2072
"What you mean is it's ingrained in British women to be nice all the fucking time."

So why are so many of the threads on here about agressive MiLs and the mummies boys that they brought up?