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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that whether you love dogs or loathe them you must ensure your children are safe around them?

127 replies

poachedeggs · 20/12/2012 22:24

And you can do that by looking at this fantastic website:

www.liamjperkfoundation.org/

These people are so brave and so inspiring. Their campaign is, in my opinion, the most effective way to keep children safe around dogs. Please take a look and share it with your friends.

OP posts:
Original poster
poachedeggs · 20/12/2012 22:24

www.liamjperkfoundation.org/

OP posts:
moodymai · 20/12/2012 22:57

Thank you, tht is very interesting

D0oinMeCleanin · 20/12/2012 22:59

YANBU at all. I walk two of my dogs on the school run sometimes and the amount of children that simply fling themselves at them or get up in their faces and stare them out is terrifying and the parents do nothing.

Luckily I am sensible and only take the dogs I know will tolerate this, but what about all the dogs who won't?

rogersmellyonthetelly · 20/12/2012 23:38

Yanbu. I love my dog, but I won't be leaving her for a second with new baby when it arrives! Older kids have enough dog sense now to be safe, but are still heavily supervised!

PiccadillyCervix · 21/12/2012 01:31

YANBU, I am not a dog person but teaching dd to wait for me to ask and how to approach dogs.

It's hard because we live in a ridiculously dog friendly area with loads of massive mutts who look scary as hell but just want to roll over and have their tummy rubbed. So dd is under the impression that all small horses large dogs are big snuggle bunnies

CoolaYuleA · 21/12/2012 01:40

I have two dogs, one toddler, one playpen, two crates and four baby gates.

There is no unsupervised interaction between any dog and child (inc visitors) in this house.

There is no touching of any dog without permission and an adult presence. That's going to continue until she's MUCH older.

I adore my dogs - but I don't trust them, I also don't trust children not to inadvertently (or even on purpose) provoke a dog to react. I also don't trust a lot of dog owners, because there are a proportion who simply don't have a clue.

We have been educating DD from day dot - and the dogs have been well trained too and I still won't leave them alone together until DD is at least 9/10. Lots of separation features in our house to make sure if an adult isn't around there is no way a child and a dog can meet.

YANBU.

CoolaYuleA · 21/12/2012 01:42

Forgot to mention the crates are dog only safe spaces, no children allowed any where near them. Dogs need a space to retreat to for peace and quiet where they feel safe.

Old pooch goes in hers during DD's tantrums Grin.

IvanaNapAfterChristmasDinner · 21/12/2012 02:02

Such a horrific story :( just awful.
What is the best response to dog walkers who say "they don't bite / are safe"? (I am thinking "there's always a first time"?)

How did you hear of that site, OP?

AboutThyme · 21/12/2012 03:25

The link is horrible, a terrible tragic event and a horrible thing to happen, but why did you post?

AboutThyme · 21/12/2012 03:34

My dogs would have died themselves to protect my daughter. My dogs were in a situation with my daughter and my stepsons in 2010 that put them at risk of death. They chose, (3 dogs), to protect us and one died in the process. Weird how those kind of stories don't make the news.

PiccadillyCervix · 21/12/2012 04:05

about time tbf I am sure the family in the story thought theire dog was safe too. People don't keep dogs that they think would kill their children. What do you think the op is getting out of posting? Presumably she is hoping that people will learn about dog safety.

FolkElf · 21/12/2012 06:26

That is a really horrific story but I was sort of expecting something a bit more enlightening than a growling dog is not a happy dog.

That sounds a bit fucking obvious to me!

FolkElf · 21/12/2012 06:28

coola I like the sound of you Smile

Original poster
poachedeggs · 21/12/2012 06:34

Why did I post?

Because, like the family who created that website, the world is full of people who place too much trust in their pets and their children, who have unreasonably high expectations and who fail to read their dog's signals of anxiety.

Until dogs learn to speak we've got to rely on their body language to allow them to communicate with us. Educating people to do this could prevent tragedy.

I am a vet so I probably have a better view of how misguided many dog owners are when it comes to appropriate interactions between children and pets. This website contains brilliant, clear information which I feel deserves to be shared, highlighted and made known to as many people as possible.

OP posts:
Original poster
poachedeggs · 21/12/2012 06:44

Elf, if you read the website you'll see comprehensive sections on dog body language, signs of anxiety, signs of arousal and simplified information for children. That aside, it's incredible how many people punish growling. Growling dogs are doing us a huge favour yet often receive physical or verbal reprimands as a result.

How many people recognise lip licking as a sign of anxiety? What about showing the whites of the eyes? A closed mouth? Yawning?

The family behind the website have identified in retrospect that their dog was anxious around their children. If they had spotted the signs their son might still be with them.

OP posts:
FolkElf · 21/12/2012 06:53

Ah! Only saw the growling dog bit!

I just read it and thought "well who wouldn't think a growling dog was a warning!"

BettySuarez · 21/12/2012 06:54

When I clicked on the link I was taken immediately to the mobile version of the site and there were a couple of links to further information about stress signs in a dog and how to approach a dog which were really useful. A couple of things I didn't know and I have been around dogs all my life.

Incredibly sad story though Sad

Thank you for sharing

natation · 21/12/2012 06:56

A little boy at our school was bitten on his face a few weeks ago, really horrific looking. Don't leave dogs and children together without an adult watching!

D0oinMeCleanin · 21/12/2012 08:33

Not all dogs growl. It is important to know the warning sign before the growl.

D0oinMeCleanin · 21/12/2012 08:41

Dh actually fell foul of almost missing signs when we were away and dd2 wanted to stroke a dog outside a shop. I said no, he said "It's tail is wagging though" dd1 promptly corrected him and told him "Not all wags are happy wags. You need to look at how the tail is wagging and what the rest of the dog is doing and dd2 is too little for that so she just should not pet dogs unless the owner is there to ask"

Original poster
poachedeggs · 21/12/2012 08:49

That is exactly why this website is important, a good example D00.

The usual media reaction to dog bites is hysteria. This brave couple have created something practical and useful, which will probably be met with surprise by many dog owners who had no idea of the messages their dog has been sending them. People think that because a dog hasn't bitten, it won't. But dogs' patience reserves are finite and we can do so much more to spot it when they're getting stressed out.

OP posts:
D0oinMeCleanin · 21/12/2012 08:56

I think what they are doing is amazing and very brave, It is so easy to go straight to "all dogs are evil" mode and understandable after something like that happening. This family are trying to make something positive out of an awful, life shattering event. I hope they get their message out. Even if it saves just one child, Liam will not have died for nothing.

MoreBeta · 21/12/2012 09:03

My mother has had hundreds of dogs in her lifetime and we never had one in the house when were children. She always told people who had a baby/toddler never to leave it with a dog - ever.

She even refused to sell dogs to people with a baby/toddler.

My MIL once said to her doctor she was thinking about getting a dog when DW was a toddler and the doctor told her it was a bad idea.

It really is standard advice. Unsupervised dogs and unsupervised children just should never be allowed to mix. Children should not approach a dog without permission of an adult.

TheKnightsWhoSayNi · 21/12/2012 09:07

No, I don't think it is unreasonable.

I love dogs. We have a dog and he's great with the kids. And I think they make great pets and companions. But you must put time and effort into properly training them, or they are very dangerous.

I personally believe that they are living, feeling beings. And the fact is that if a human is neglected, abused or not trained to behave properly, they will be very dangerous as well. On the other hand, every human or dog can be raised to be a lovely friendly being if it is done right.

A lot of people seem to make the mistake that the little one is safest around children, when that is just not necessarily the case. We have a lovely big one who is soft as sponge. And unfortunately, I know of someone with a small cute looking dog who I will not let my children go near because he has been improperly trained and I believe he is dangerous. To 1 year old, even a bite from a toy-dog could be fatal.

MousyMouse · 21/12/2012 09:09

yabu (to an extend)
dog owners have to ensure that their dogs get appropriate training and that they are under control, preferably on the lead at all times when out in public. if they can't or won't they shouldn't have a dog and dog wardens should have the possibility to take away dog and take action against the owners if they don't comply with the rules.

but I agree that children should be taught to be safe and confident around animals.