to think that whether you love dogs or loathe them you must ensure your children are safe around them?

[poachedeggs]

And you can do that by looking at this fantastic website:

www.liamjperkfoundation.org/

These people are so brave and so inspiring. Their campaign is, in my opinion, the most effective way to keep children safe around dogs. Please take a look and share it with your friends.

sorry, wrote before reading the link
agree it is a good thing, hope many dog owners read this.

Even with appropriate training, Mousy, dogs can still lose their patience or become scared and bite.

And what about the dogs who are in the process of being trained? Mine was adult when he came to me with issues. He gave very clear warnings fortunately and was tremendously patient giving us warning after warning. He was fear aggressive around children and most adults and all other dogs. I still had to exercise him during training and it would terrify me when children came running up to us with no parent with them.

Yes dog owners need to be responsible, but the non dog owning public need to take responsibility for their own safety and read up on the signs of dog anxiety and teach their children about how to be safe around dogs and how to "read" them.

I haven't read the link yet but adults need to be educated as well! I have a basset who's getting used to being an only dog so is nervous of strangers, as previously he had a big dog for confidence. The amount of adults who march up to him to stroke him without asking us is unbelievable. He literally wraps himself around our legs trying to get away from them, and still they persist and get shitty when I ask them to leave him be. He responds better to people who approach him properly.

YANBU. But someone asked a good question up thread. I am terrified of dogs after a bad experience when I was little. Can't walk through a park without dogs jumping on me and I just freeze and sometimes cry. Typically owner will say 'its fine, he is just being friendly' or 'he won't bite'. Inside I am screaming I don't want to be your dog's friend and it is bad enough he is jumping on me, just call him off please.

How do you stop what are clearly nice dogs and nice dog owners doing this? BTW, DH is taking initial responsibility for any dog contact, I don't want our DCs to inherit my phobia.

In your shoes forgetmenots I would reply "I am allergic, call your dog away" it annoys me when people call their dog is friendly from miles away. They do it to me too, when dogs approach mine. What makes them so sure my dogs are dog friendly? Eejits. Mine are friendly but two need training to stay clam on a leash around other dogs, not easy when unleashed dogs run up to them shouting "Playtime" It happened twice yesterday when I was trying to get puppy to sit when he saw another dog, one woman stopped with a very bouncy lurcher and asked how I got him to be so calm near other dogs

It's interesting you say that you get jumped on every time you walk through a park. I adore dogs and often walk around with pockets full of hotdogs or cheese (I am not a nutter who feeds strange dogs btw, my own dogs are in training and I keep treats on me to reinforce any calm behaviour I capture during the day) but I am rarely jumped on by strange dogs, although I was accosted by a stomach on legs yesterday, but I actually hotdog in my hand at that time

I wonder if there is something in your body language that is attracting these dogs? When one comes close what do you do? Freezing is good, it's boring. Arm waving and high pitched voices are interesting and indicate playtime to many dogs.

Thanks Doin. I've just mostly avoided parks (I know, I know) and I'm careful not to carry food - I assume it's because I probably look as if I'm on high alert, waiting for the next canine pal to jump out. Self-fulfilling prophecy, but I can't help it any more. Freezing is just total fear kicking in, must be a weird survival instinct in my brain. Honestly couldn't be more scared if it was a bear coming to say hello!

That must be very difficult when you are training your dogs. DH had suggested we get a dog to try and get me over the fear, but as much as I think it might help, it's exactly that, the idea of strange dogs that put me off.

Glad to hear so many lovely dog owners on this thread, I do love dogs at a distance!

I would be mortified if any of my dogs jumped on a stranger, unless they were invited to do so. My Dad's dogs do it and it annoys the hell out of me, it is so rude.

Apparently I am getting my hands on the worst culprit soon. That will be the first thing I train her not to do. Sadly it is children she is worst with, she only wants to play, she loves children, but that's not the point really is it? Most children do not like large dogs knocking them off their feet and frankly I don't blame them.

We have a dog, and a baby. As he (the baby!) gets older, we will be teaching him that certain areas are the dog's space, and he is not allowed into them, so that she (the dog! has somewhere peaceful to retreat too.

She is a good dog, but we've only had her a year, she is a rescue dog and can get very nervy and on edge at times (people standing outside the window/knocks at the door etc). So although we love her very much, there is no way she would be left alone with the baby, until he is older.

Doin that's more or less what happened to me, but I was only a toddler and the dog was snapping its jaws and was not friendly, could tell that even then. I can remember it vividly to this day, and it's what set the whole thing off. I was terrified even of my aunt's sleepy old Labrador (an ex guide dog who would not have harmed a fly).

It is hard because I love to see children playing with dogs, but you are right - it is so hard to get both child and dog to understand the limits! If you can train this dog to not jump until playtime but still love children you will have done a wonderful thing in my book.

The link is so sad.

I have dogs who weigh more than me and are over six foot on their hind legs. Looking at them makes me super conscious of their potential danger. They interact with the children a lot and the children get involved in training but we have a lot of rules and separation. I am amazed by the amount of owners who let their children do all sorts to the dogs, they are naive in the extreme.

Was going to say how much I admire the parents, what an important message and one that many long term owners don't know even if they think they do. They have been really honest about their heartbreaking experience.

Hmm... In two minds about this...

I think it is important that children and parents are educated about warning signs but I don't think this will keep them safe when so many people keep dogs in what are frankly totally inappropriate places and lifestyles.

My dh's aunty loves dogs, considers them her babies and will not let up about how we are cruel to not let our dc experience the pleasure of owning a dog but we have 4 dc in what is essentially a 3 bed house (big bedroom has been split) and live in the centre of town and have only a tiny yard and no way of walking a dog properly.

I think the major, major problem is people owning dogs full stop. I think it is often an incredibly selfish thing, often quite abusive to the dog and quite antisocial. There are very few situations in which I would want to own a dog, maybe only if I lived in the country and the dog was able to live the lifestyle of a dog and not have to be trained to within an inch of it's life so that there was less chance it responded aggressively to the inevitable stress it would suffer from living such a life.

And yes people who take dogs on the school run and make other people responsible for knowing how to be safe around them are v. Irresponsible. There shouldn't be a need to bring a dog on a school run or into a children's park or town centre, they are stressful environments for dogs and places where you are likely to find people who want to touch the dog and don't understand.

Yanbu.

I have a puppy. I intend to keep her when I have children. I am under no illusions regarding keeping a child safe and owning her. I know the breed and its limitations. But lots of people don't know,which is why websites like this are so helpful.

Just one thing though...dogs yawn when they are tired or thinking not when they are uncomfortable. Or rather,they yawn when they are thinking as well. Watch a dog doing a mental agility task,they'll yawn.

forgetmenot

Just say that to them. You don't have to like a dog jumping on you. I own a dog and don't like random dogs jumping on me as I go about my business.

I live in an areas with a large population of Muslims. I know that many believe dogs are unclean and don't like them. So along with being considerate of people's general dislike/phobia of dogs,I must be mindful of religious beliefs. Hence I've made it my business to make sure my puppy has good recall when off lead and doesn't run/jump at people. I've had a lady thank me as she walked by because she saw I had deliberately called my dog back.

It makes me want to scream when passers by stop to pet her and encourage her to jump up at them. It's so irritating and as she's quite young,detrimental to her training.

absolutely, offred
I also think that is is very very difficult to keep dogs (or any pets for that matter) appropriately. it takes a lot of time, knowledge and dedication, that unfortunately many people lack.
you just have to look at the piles and piles of dog crap on pavement to realise that many just don't give a shit (pun intended) about their environment and fellow creatures (2 or 4 legged).

We have 14 people here on Boxing Day. I will also have 3 dogs. The dogs will be kept away in a quiet bedroom for most of the lunch as there will be a 2 and a 5 year old child. The dogs aren't used to young dc and I want to enjoy my lunch, not be watching them constantly.

I know though that there parents will keep asking for the dogs to "come and play" with their children, that they will keep insisting that their dc "love dogs".

I find the whole thing very irritating as I think any responsible parent should not be asking for their young children to be playing with a dog they don't know at all well. They seem to want to treat my dogs as learning aids for their dc.

Very useful. I can now train DS how to stand. (he tends to scream and climb up me if he sees a dog)

I love my daft Labrador. I have never seen any aggression in her, BUT I would never leave her with a child.

I don't have small children anymore - when friends with children are here, she is either in her room or supervised or behind a stair gate. I wouldn't take the risk. She is an animal and as much as I love her, she has the potential to seriously injure.

That's just it Faye, no aggression but many dogs who have shown no overt aggression (e.g. growls, snapping) have shown signs of stress which are precursors to aggression. These signs tend to be so subtle that they go unnoticed, or people don't recognise them or associate them with stress. But they are really important.

It is incredibly rare for a dog to truly bite 'without warning', yet people talk about this happening all the time. People don't know what to look for and don't get the messages dog is sen to and send it'us.

*trying to send us

is what that should read at the end!

Really useful thread and link. The story on the link is so very heartbreaking.

I have a question tho, does it make a difference if you have your dog from a 7 week old and they grow up with children? Mine are 4 and 7 and I wouldn't leave them alone with permapup as she is (still) so blooming bitey (17 weeks). But I'm hoping when she's a dog and the kids will be 6 and 9 that they'll be able to be alone with her for short periods (ie in the lounge while i potter around) or am I being naive?

That's a really inetersting and worthwhile campaign. THink all responsible dogbreeders should have it as a link on their webpages.

The link took me to the mobile page,just read the full story on the full site. How utterly heartbreaking. The parents are such brave people.

Alisvolatpropiis, dogs yawn for lots of reasons, including to show discomfort or uneasiness. Yes, they also yawn when they are tired or thinking but yawning is a recognised 'calming' or 'stress' signal. You have to to look at the whole dog in context. One yawn and a stretch is tiredness. One yawn while training is probably that the dog is thinking/delaying for time because he is not sure what is expected of him (so, in a way, that could be read as light stress) but repeated, slow exaggerated yawns are signs that the dog is uncomfortable with something. You should also watch the whole face, ears, tail and body posture, stress signals are often given in quick succession of each other rather one simple signal.

The safest thing if you are not a dog owner is to teach your children to always ask before petting a dog and to approach and pet the dog slowly from the side not over his head or face to face. Dog owners should read up on canine body language and make sure they and children who are old enough fully understand what their dog is trying to say.