to think that whether you love dogs or loathe them you must ensure your children are safe around them?

[poachedeggs]

And you can do that by looking at this fantastic website:

www.liamjperkfoundation.org/

These people are so brave and so inspiring. Their campaign is, in my opinion, the most effective way to keep children safe around dogs. Please take a look and share it with your friends.

*who do.

Nini...that's a hard one because 2 years old is so little and a mastiff,even as a pup is a sizeable animal.

Maybe try not picking her up,as that implies she is unsafe and explain the dog is saying hello,just hold her hand and move her a bit further away from the puppy? But have a word with your neighbour about the licking. Dogs lick their own bits, I wouldn't want my face licked by one!

When contraception is 100% effective and freely available to all, there's no rape or domestic violence, everyone is absolutely educated about fertility then maybe you could say children are a personal choice. People encroaching onto the habitats of wild animals obviously need to learn how to live with them and also expect consequences. People having owned dogs for a long time in human history does not absolve them of responsibility for keeping them in responsible conditions, modern life is very different to life even 40 years ago and conditions are much more inappropriate for dogs. It is a potential dog owner's responsibility to think about that fact, the answer is not to get a dog and keep it in a stressful environment because people have kept dogs for a long time...

What then do you suggest that we do with all the domestic dogs?Euthanise them?

Have you ever owned a dog?

How is that a response? So you think it is fine for people to be getting dogs and keeping them in stupid situations because people have kept dogs for ages and therefore it is society's responsibility that someone chose to get a dog and keep it miserably? No, you don't (I think) so why would I think dogs should be euthanised just because I think the responsibility of a dog begins when you consider the environment you will be keeping it in?

No, I haven't ever been able to keep a dog, nor would I choose to while my dc are small.

Because I'm getting the impression,correct me if I wrong,that you think keeping a dog is wrong unless one happens to have acres of land as ones back garden.

so Offred, what exactly is a suitable and appropriate environment for a dog in your opinion? In the middle of nowhere and dogs should never be taken to any places where there might be humans?

I don't think all dogs should be killed right now, but I do think dogs as pets should be phased out. i.e. no more breeding.

keeping a dog unless it is kept well is wrong, yes.

big back garden does not equal a well kept dog though. Nor does lack of back garden mean that dog is kept in unsuitable conditions.

DD (3) has just been knocked off her feet by a dog running at her. It all happened so quickly, one minute I was holding her hand, the next minute she was on the floor in a muddy puddle . We were at the riding stables so the dog was off the lead.

Some great stuff on there. Have just read signs out to my girls. My parents dog is showing signs of aggressive behaviour.
We have a doggy, he is very friendly but understand not everyone is a dog lover.

Thanks Alis Neighbour's dog is not a pup but a full grown dog so he is indeed sizeable! I do try and get between him and DD, but he just goes round my legs! The neighbour knows DD hates being licked but just says her dog 'loves children'. Which he does. But even so...DD now reacts to all big dogs by screaming in fear, which I don't want . I want her to be cautious with strange dogs (reading the link at the top of this topic with interest) but I don't want her to be afraid.

Interesting in the link on that site about small dogs. There's a small dog up the road (think chihuahua size) that is vicious as anything and will go for small children on sight. He belongs to the local roughnecks though...

What constitutes a suitable environment depends on the type of dog. I have never said having a big garden means you are automatically a good dog owner but I think having a tiny yard means you are a bad one even if you have a tiny dog. I don't think people should keep dogs in urban areas at all.

If dogs are adequately stimulated then I see no problem with them living in urban areas. A dog living somewhere rural with a vast garden but which was never walked or interacted with would be worse off. They are highly social and need homes where they are mentally and physically stimulated, and the setting has no bearing on an owner's ability to provide this.

We mustn't forget that dog are not wolves. Not are wouldwild animals. They are born and reared among humans and when treated with sympathy and diplomacy they can enjoy excellent quality of life.

*Nor are they wild animals

that's a very anthropomorphic view, that as we like big houses and gardens, dogs need those as well. I have 2 big dogs, I have a garden - they really couldn't care less. They only want to be there when we are outside and otherwise just hang in whichever room we are. So no, they would not be unhappy dogs even if we lived in a flat. They would be unhappy if we just kept them in the garden and never took them anywhere though.

How do you ensure people adequately stimulate dogs? There is no regulation, no requirement for people to be knowledgeable about or skilled enough or have time or resources to care for a dog properly I doubt dogs can possibly be adequately stimulated locked up in houses all day or with tiny yards but there are always exceptions to the rule. Not going outside of course doesn't mean the dog is adequately stimulated or doesn't want more outside space, could just be bored of the tiny garden with nothing interesting in it. You can't ensure people adequately stimulate dogs and it is much harder to stimulate an urban dog, given dogs are just pets and the risk from under stimulated dogs around a number of people is fairly high I don't see why it is a good plan to have dogs in urban areas. I don't think it is a good idea to just leave it to random people.

I don't think dogs like big houses and gardens because people do, I said small urban spaces are stressful for dogs... They are stressful for people too...

I took my dog to York train station at rush hour a few weeks ago. He thought it was the best thing in the world ever. I wasn't so keen, after sitting through a four hour lecture on canine stress signals, a bus and two different trains home were the last thing I was looking forward to, but the dog was definitely in his happy place.

What makes you sure urban dogs are all stressed Offred?

what Dooin said - sure my dogs get their walks in fields and forests too, but they love busy crowded places, so many new things to see and sniff. We're going to a Christmas market later. No you can't force people to stimulate dogs, but for a random dog owner, there's more stimulation to be found in urban areas than in the same (even if large) back garden.

I didn't say all stressed I said it is a stressful life and it is harder to adequately stimulate a dog in a modern urban lifestyle and there is no regulation of or education about keeping dogs so I think the solution is to not allow people to keep them in urban areas. I have always said all along that some, although I think they are a minority, keep dogs responsibly however I don't think it is responsible to bring dogs on the school run where you know there are going to be children who may put the dog in a position where it might nip or bite I know you said you do that so I already think you aren't a responsible dog owner because I don't think that is something a responsible dog owner would do and this website just encourages irresponsible dog owners to see it as not their responsibility if they put their dog into a difficult position and it then bites because they think it is society's responsibility to protect themselves from their personal choice to keep a particular kind of pet.

And I am aware busy places can be more stimulating but not always good stimulation. I have a low opinion of people who bring dogs to busy places like Christmas markets too so again I wouldn't see you as a responsible dog owner.

Well our trainer would disagree with you. So would my dogs.

If that website encourages irresponsible dog ownership then pigs will fly. Their son was killed. You don't think they have gone to huge lengths to understand and consider this? What complete rot.

But carry on, I appreciate you bumping the thread because the more people who see that site the better.