To feel bad about lying to my children?

[Meggymoodle]

Father Christmas. Totally acceptable lying.

Don't get me wrong, we "do" Father Christmas but I'm not convinced about the ethics of lying to my sprogs.

It's strange but it's only the parents who are in favour of making out Santa is real who are using words like "traumatised" and "damaged." I never once said it would traumatise or damage a child to be lied to about Santa and I'm pretty sure no one else who isn't in favour of a "real" Santa said that either. I certainly wasn't traumatised or damaged by it as a child, it just pissed me off. If you do do the Santa thing you don't have to defend it, there's no need. I don't think it's wrong by any means, I just don't want to do it myself, for my own reasons.

I don't any of you 'mustn't lie to children' people in RL.
Everyone I know is longing to pass on the Santa story to their kids because of the magic THEY felt as a child.
Me and DH feel identical. Both of sets of parents were immensely creative and created wonderful traditions that we are currently revelling. Talking about Santa makes me and DH teary!

My sister is unsuccessfully TTC. It always bites this time of year because she is longing to create the Santa story with her children as it made her so happy as a child.

I feel all warm and tingly and it's because of the man with the beard

I feel very warm and tingly because of the man with the beard too but it's dh

Yes, it's barefaced lying telling kids Santa is real. Doesn't stop me though. My dh's family didn't put up a tree or decorations, no Santa Claus. I had the full works which I loved, even when I realised it was mum and dad not Santa.
Dh is now the biggest Christmas man of all time, nothing is too much for him to keep the Santa legend alive. He says the look of wonder on the kids faces on Christmas morning is everything he never had and it's priceless to him.

Before I had my DD and started frequenting parenting forums, reading parenting blogs etc., I had NO idea that people considered FC "lying". The first time I heard that, I was absolutely incredulous.

If it's lying, then I'm bloody glad my parents lied to me! Father Christmas was hands down the most exciting thing to happen, ever.

This is a very interesting debate. I can see where the OP and CailinDana and others are coming from, but also where the opinions of the majority are coming from. I have to say, since my DS1, aged 6, does seem to want to take his belief very literally, I do find myself feeling a bit uncomfortable trying to bat away his questions. I sort of look forward to the time when we both (i.e. he and I) know he doesn't believe any more but don't acknowledge it and just carry on with the tradition for the fun of it.

Somewhere up thread someone drew a comparison with religion. Actually i think there is a comparison to be made, but not quite in the way it was done up thread. There are some people out there who get very worked up about their children coming into contact with religion and Bible stories at school, but probably don't see that in fact it is totally harmless, like believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy etc, which they probably do: the Christian story from a child's point of view is also a story full of wonder, imagination and magic, just like the story of Father Christmas - so who cares if for a while they believe in Jesus, if their parents aren't religious they'll grow out of it, just like they grow out of believing in Santa.

Currently DS1 says he believes in Jesus and Zeus and all the Greco-Roman gods .

rogersmelly that is so lovely and i know what he means.

When we took the dds to Florida their faces and the look of wonder when they walked into the castle and Cinderella was waiting for them, it was priceless.

Yes i lie about fairies and princesses too and nothing would convince me to do otherwise.

I don't think I lie about father Christmas.

Yes, I talk about FC to my DC, but I also talk about characters from books and fairy tales. I don't point out that they aren't true - in fact I pretend that they are, because it is fun.

However I will admit I have been a bit reading about some of the elaborate tales other MNers have been spinning to explain about Father Christmas - lots of talk of money being sent to the North Pole and all sorts of (imo) complicated scenarios.

I don't pretend to have all the answers when it comes to Father Christmas (or anything really ). My DC haven't really questioned much yet, but when they do, I will be going with the "I don't know, what do you think?" or "I don't know, but maybe it's because..." line. I just see it as supporting my children's imaginations

DD was talking the other day about getting a bird table for the garden. She asked me what the birds would say when they saw it. So I did an impression of lots of excited birds talking about how pleased they were. Then I told her what the squirrels would say too. Should I have instead said to her that birds and squirrels can't talk and they wouldn't say anything? I don't see how that is really any different? (and she knows by that they can't talk, but she still likes imagining they can, and I have never actually had to have a big talk with her, and say, DD, you do realise birds can't talk don't you. I assume that she will come to understand the existence Father Christmas in a similar way as she gets older)

I suppose that if you are always making-believe with your children, then FC just slots straight into that, as just another part of the make believe that you gradually start to understand might not be real.

If you are generally absolutely literal and logical with your children, then FC might stand out like a sore thumb, and it might feel a lot more like "lying" and a lot more alien to both you and your children.

Imo that is different because the imaginative play is coming from her waffle

I don't understand why you think it's an either/or situation waffles - either your children believe or you're totally literal and logical. I will certainly be doing the story of Santa with my children, and they will go and see him in the shopping centre etc, but I won't be making out that he actually comes into the house on Christmas Eve. I pretend with my DS all the time - I pretend his toys are talking, I pretend to be frightened when he's says he's a tiger and starts chasing me etc. Even at age 2 he knows all this isn't real.

The fact is the vast majority of parents who do the Santa thing do make out he's real. That's not imagination or make believe, that's encouraging your child to believe something that isn't true. Even when children question it plenty of parents don't tell them the truth.

There is a big difference IMO between playing and pretending, where everyone involved knows it's just a game and so has equal control over the fantasy, and presenting a story to a child and letting them believe wholeheartedly that it's real, even going to so far as to lie to them to encourage that.

I took ds to see FC once he was as terrified as I was when I was a kid

I took DS for the first time this year Valium, but he was totally baffled. A bit young yet I think.

oh another thread you are not lying you are telling your children a fairy story and tbh it is a great story and great fun yabu your children will not hold it against you,

imagine if 1 of your children said mummy do you like my painting (and you didnt) would you say OH GOOD GOD what is that , no you would lie and say oh it is lovely darling,

mrsD but that came from him and he involved you in her play - I have said similar about the feather but presented it as 'some people believe angels leave white feathers when they visit.'

I lied. I lied my heart out and I created evidence to compound my lies.

I'm glad I did.

Again, why does it have to be either/or jingle?

I've never not liked a painting my child has made either so no need to lie.

Again, why does it have to be either/or jingle?

\im not sure what you mean ?

do santa or not but imo it isn't lying to them it is pretend or play or a story or whatever but it isn't lying

The fact is the vast majority of parents who do the Santa thing do make out he's real. That's not imagination or make believe, that's encouraging your child to believe something that isn't true. Even when children question it plenty of parents don't tell them the truth.

So what?

Well, I'm my case it would mean that my very literal ds would question everything I told him if I insisted FC was real.

Showme - that quote doesn't make sense out of context of the rest of the post, so if you read the whole lot of the post you'll get the so what.

Marzipanface - come on now, you're just making it up as you go along!
I am laughing at Lapland being embarrassing for children!!

Is that the clutching of straws I hear?

I've never not liked a painting my child has made either so no need to lie.

even if they say mum can you see the xyz and you say oh yes i see it (when you don't)

Every family does santa different and has their own christmas story whether santa comes in the house or not, I dont think it is the great santa conspiracy and I don't know any adult who is sad that their parents lied, each to their own and all that

I think people think too much! Get over it, I don't even remember when I found out 'the truth' or how. I don't think it matters a toss.