to dump my BF for going with a prostitute...

[snailfiddler]

... 24 years ago.

On a lads holiday to Amsterdam.

[badinage]

I meant that strumpet's post sounded plausible incidentally, not the 'get a grip FFS he's a man, 'ladies' know your place!!' rants that followed.....

[BegoniaBampot]

Wen a man goes with a prostitute how does he know she hasn't been trafficked or forced into it though? Don't some young girls get coerced into it by 'boyfriends' who end up becoming their pimps or does this not matter? Do men who go with prostitutes have no responsibility regarding this?

[AnyFuckerForAMincePie]

As long as they don't have to be confronted with it, and the women in their life turn a blind eye and don't question damaging rationalisations...then no, they don't have to take responsibility for it.

[AThingInYourLife]

" I am perfectly within my rights to rent out my fanny for half an hour. Its mine."

Sure.

But if you are selling your fanny because you are addicted to drugs and need to pay for your next fix, what kind of person accepts that consent?

What kind of person is happy to buy your fanny knowing that you are deeply psychologically traumatised by years of sexual abuse?

What kind of person doesn't care?

What kind of person takes the risk that you are being coerced and thinks it's not their problem to figure out if they are raping you?

One person gives consent, and the other person accepts it.

It's the second person I'm interested in.

I've no quarrel with women who sell sex for money.

[bringbacksideburns]

Good post ATHING. I was thinking the very same.

This Happy Hooker stuff is a bit of a myth. I would think the number of Billie wotsit call girls around, earning thousands sleeping with perfectly attractive men or operating in High Society are very few and far between.

The reality is Drug Addiction, Pimps and Coertion or in some countries having to support your starving family.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

I agree badinage and A Thing. I dont understand why it seems to be considered by some on here to be hysterical and inconsistent to maintain that a punter can never be sure he has proper consent to have sex with a prostitute. Its just a fact.
A man could have done this when young and naive, and later regretted it massively when he realises this, or he could do it and rationalise it by saying things like " its a womans choice to rent out her fanny "
It might be her choice in the moment (it might not) but even then the man is taking advantage of a fucked up situation, and is willing to engage in a totally unequal sexual transaction.
There is a reason why most women dont suddenly decide to have sex for money when they are skint. Its a very unpleasant thing to do. Any man, or woman, who discounts the fact that this woman is totally faking any pleasure and is gritting her teeth until its over is either immoral or deluded.

[BurtRR]

You should dump him as he is a complete plonker for confessing something he did 24 years ago. OTOH I am impressed he can remember 1987

[strumpetpumpkin]

would that go along the same lines as they shouldnt accept consent for a sexual relationship with someone who had been abused before at all.

If a woman has been abused, do you think shes just pretty much fucked and cant make a rational informed decison to have sex again, or is it just the fact that its money changing hands??

I just dont see a big problem with one person using another if the other person is happy to be used.

I dont think anyone is entitled to sex, but anyone is entitled to try and get it, and if theyre lucky enough to find someone whos willing to do it, for fun or for money, then theyre perfectly entitled to make that transaction between themselves.

The fact its mostly men. Dont care. I see men as people, not abusers. Im not impressed by men who use prostitutes. I think its pretty lame, and shows theyre not interested in whether their partner is enjoying themselves, but at most i think it makes them sexually selfish and a crap shag, but a lot of people are those things anyway without money changing hands.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Yes, it's the fact that there is money changing hands.
And it's not as simple as to say, oh well, she has been abused in the past as so can't enjoy sex again ever. I know plenty of people who have been abused and go on to enjoy sex with their partners.
But when sex is in the form of a financial transaction. and the person selling probably wouldnt be there if she hadnt been abused, then that is perpetuating the abuse.
And I certainly don't view all men as abusers. Just the ones who have sex with women they cant possible know are really consenting.
There is a WORLD of difference between "for fun" and "for money". You can't put those two things in the same sentence, as if they are interchangeable.

[BegoniaBampot]

But strumpet, how do you know they are consenting or are being coerced or even trafficked?

[GhostShip]

This Happy Hooker stuff is a bit of a myth

Sigh. It's actually not. It's very true and there are hundreds in the UK, although they wouldn't refer to themselves as 'happy hookers'. Just because you might not know any doesn't mean they don't exist. Like I've said before, I alone know 6 women who like what they do and see it as a great job to have. Flexible hours, good money, answer to no-one.
I'm just saying that you can argue what you like, but it isn't a myth at all and much more popular than someone not in the know might think.

[GhostShip]

Off topic, but I know one woman who works full time as a nurse, but on the side she works as a prostitute because she's a self proclaimed 'sex addict'. In her words 'I'm going to get it anyway, so may as well make money from it'

If you met her she looks like butter wouldn't melt :o

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Sorry Ghost ship, but I am "in the know" and that is why I am so anti prostitution. I just find it really hard to believe that you know so many women willing to sell sex happily, with no unpleasant back story.
But at the end of the day, even if there are women who do it easily and happily, a punter can't know that, so therefore buying sexual services is not an OK thing to do.

[wewereherefirst]

There are happy hookers. I know

[BegoniaBampot]

Plus I'd imagine a lot of women who start of down this route 'happy' and feel they are in control might come to bitterly regret it some years down the line.

[strumpetpumpkin]

i know at least 4 people who i know sell sex or have sold sex happily and are not fucked up from it.

I could do it.

[BegoniaBampot]

But you keep missing out those who are not happy doing it. Whose lives are beyond miserable. do you think it's ok for a man to use a trafficked woman, or someone who has been selling her body since childhood?

[Redbindy]

OP started off about what happened 24 years ago. Now the thread is on about denying women the right to earn a living under our own terms. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves!

[GhostShip]

But you keep missing out those who are not happy doing it. Whose lives are beyond miserable. do you think it's ok for a man to use a trafficked woman, or someone who has been selling her body since childhood?

I havent seen anyone do that. All I've seen is people trying to say the 'happy hookers' are a myth or can't possibly be truly happy.

Ifnot Find it hard to believe all you like, but I know these women. I even have them on facebook FGS. I really do need to suggest that they join here. Although people would probably all try and tell them how deep down they can't possibly be happy, and all sorts of other offensive and patronising psychobabble I've heard people come out with on here regarding that subject.

If you know about that sort of thing, then you will know that there are the more reputable places. Places where women work for themselves, who have no-one in control over them. Not all men who visit prostitutes are perverted kerb crawlers, picking up any old girl off the street.

[strumpetpumpkin]

I don't miss those women out. its never ok to be trafficked coerced or forced into anything. of course its not.

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

Butb thats the point strumpet. A punter cant know if a girl is trafficked or coerced, or if she isn't. Its not always obvious, and men seem to be willing to turn a blind eye to the harsh realities.
No matter whether she is on the street, or a "high class" call girl. Once money is involved, the whole dynamic changes from consensual sex to a business transaction.
And Redbindy-I am not denying any woman's right to earn a living under her own terms. I am not having a go at prostitutes at all. Just the morally bankrupt mentality of men who use them.
And not all prostitutes are women. Lots of boys sell sex to seedy men. Is a 16 year old boy who rents himself an empowered man who is earning a living under his own terms? He may think so. We might think differently.

[AThingInYourLife]

The Happy Hooker myth is a particular narrative about prostiution that is based on misrepresentation and lies.

That doesn't imply that there are no happy hookers, just that the stories that are told about women having orgasmic sex with men they struggle not to fall in love with are bullshit.

Why should any of us be concerned with these women you know if they are so happy?

If they are making a living happily (albeit in an ugly exploitative industry that undeniably does great harm to many women) they are just tip top and need nothing from any of us.

[GhostShip]

just that the stories that are told about women having orgasmic sex with men they struggle not to fall in love with are bullshit

Youre right, that is bullshit.

I'm not saying any of you should be concerned, but you might take them into consideration when you're talking about prostitution and it's evils.

[wewereherefirst]

They certainly wouldn't need telling that they mask their own feelings and arnt happy at all.

[AThingInYourLife]

"you might take them into consideration when you're talking about prostitution and it's evils."

Why?

They apparently are entirely removed from the evils of prostitution, so they are just a footnote to that argument.