Widowed dad wants to holiday with us, at same time as DSis and friend. WWYD?

[ConchFritter]

Name changer.

Due to DH job we live abroad, far away from family in hot sunny place where people love to come for holidays. DH and I have toddler. I miss my family and friends but have not been able to come back to UK since summer 2011 when toddler was a small baby. I feel sad that our families are missing out on our child's baby days - Skype is not the same. However Dad and sister came out together and visited us last winter.

DSis is now coming to stay again, this time over Christmas and into Jan. Also coming with her is DHs best friend, our child's godfather. Sister and he are great friends and both single in their 30s. They are both fantastic fun. They are really excited about coming on holiday and seeing us. In my sister's case this is the first holiday she has been on without Dad since Mum died. (she is a very kind daughter and dad doesn't like to holiday on his own).

Now dad has suddenly asked if he can come too. I've said no because we have no bed to put him in (am paying to put up my sister and DH friend in a friend's 2 bed house while she is away for two weeks). There is no chance of getting a hotel room now without paying hundreds of pounds a night.

But also I know how much my sister needs a proper holiday with someone her own age having fun. And I don't think it is fair on DH friend to have dad along on his holiday either. I have not said anything about this to dad but I was pathetically hoping he might realize its a bit unfair on DSis to always send her holidays with him - she needs her own life too.

I've offered to have dad another time and to pay for a room for him ( we have no spare room) but he can't come til late spring.

But I feel awful about dad not seeing any family at Christmas.
And dad has not got back to me since I told him we had no room. I worry that he feels depressed and abandoned.

He actually has lots of friends, a heaving social and work life and is a great host and lovely company, I know heaps of people owe him meals and would love to have him round over the days of the festive season.

WWYD?

Plus it doesn´t have to be all of one or all of the other.

He could have a day/night with sister-if convenient to her.

But if he´s your guest, he falls in with you.

I´m guessing he hasn´t been to see you without sister also being there?

Would he want to do that?

Is that why he´s asking about Christmas rather than Spring?

Also-when you go out twice a day for a couple of hrs-could he do that with you?

Is your routine (other than getting up at 4.30) set in stone?

Im intrigued and jealous as to where you are?

I think you are being put in a very unreasonable position. He should be the adult here and realise that his plan is actually not going to work this time. You and your sister sound like you bend over backwards to make his life as good as you can and actually you are BOTH allowed to set some boundaries.

From what you have said, he probably just doesn't think through the implications of bunking in on an already planned trip. He thinks of himself as a young, fun Dad who usually goes on holiday with his daughter and enjoys it.

He probably doesn't really realise that she needs a break. In a way that shows how lovely your sister is because she hasn't let on to him what she really feels like!

In his head, he has come up with a brilliant way of enjoying his usual holiday company AND seeing you guys.

What he isn't thinking through is that this hasn't been planned as a family holiday. This is two mates meeting two other mates who happen to be related.

It doesn't even sound like this holiday is one where YOU will get to spend lots of time socialising with your sis, dh and friend. You will be home with the baby!

He hasn't been recently widowed. He is not infirm and lonely. He is a sociable guys with a job, friends and an active social life who just fancies this version of Xmas over his previous plans. That's absolutely fine and I can totally see how it has come about.

However, to make his idea happens means creating unnecessary stress and presssure on you, your DH, his friend, your sister AND your child. That is silly.

You and your sister need to present a united front and (kindly) tell him it isn't happening. He will be disappointed but that isn't your fault or responsibility.

Yes, Christmas is about family and compromise but I think some posters on here have been really unfair on you. This is a particular moment in time with particular circumstances and it JUST DOESN'T WORK!! Oh, and he won't arrive until Boxing Day anyway WHICH MEANS HE DOESN'T SPEND XMAS WITH YOU ANYWAY!!!!

If you just can't bear to say no then definitely definitely definitely say he can only come for half the time. Give them a week on their own and a week of him bunking in with you. He can choose which week if no-one minds compromising on that.

What does he best respond to - the truth? a tug on the heartstrings re giving your sister some time out? a white lie about trying to set up a romance? tears because you are so worried it is all too much? begging? telling a straight no and getting a row out of the way? Whatever it is, it has to come from you all and it has to be done soon.

I really feel for you.

The perils of living in a faraway place that everyone wants to visit!

Just say 'No' to him - please dont offer him compromises.

As soon as you say 'yes' I would bet my house that he will start on your DSis to get her to change beds with him (back pain/joint pain will suddenly appear). He is very selfishly trying to guilt trip you all and ruin the holiday.

Undoubtedly he would then rather smugly sit in the middle saying 'isnt this fun'.

You have a bit of distance in this so can ignore the guilt tripping without having to live with him sulking. Consider this as your Christmas present to your DSis.

Well, I have a lot of experience of emotionally demanding relatives and I am projecting my feelings onto your sister! And I am outraged for her!

Honestly, if she really has spent all of her holidays with him for the past five years he needs to BACK OFF and give her some space. Your father has needs, sure, but it sounds like everyone is doing whatever they can to accommodate them for the great majority of the time. He made other arrangements himself and then changed his mind.

To be fair to your dad, he is probably so accustomed to being accommodated he is not thinking that he might be interfering with your sister's needs on this occasion.

I think XMAS is a red herring but I have xmas mad relatives who have made everyone's lives HELL with their demands around it.

If he comes is it likely he will end up doing what he wants, which seems to be spending time with your sister and her friend?

I really would encourage him to just come in the spring.

I can't believe the amount of people guilting you into having him stay.

I would stick with the plan of him coming later when you can fit him in.

Sorry, but I read so many threads on here about people wanting to spend Christmas with their family and feeling put on by other relatives wanting to join them, and the advice is usually the opposite of what you are getting on here.

Why should you be expected to sleep on a blow up bed for 2 weeks? Why should your sister always have to spend her hols with her dad?

You are grown ups, and your dad is what in his 60s? Hardly old and infirm, with a great social life, so I'm pretty sure he can organise himself for Christmas.

I would be honest with him though and tell him you don't think its fair on DH's friend that he be made to share accommodation with him.

Good luck.

As already mentioned, he isn't even going to be there for Christmas, so once you take it out of the equation, its just about a holiday (which he will be getting a few weeks later).

Yy not been here before without sis: they were out all day and often nights out too and baby and I joined inwhen we could. If here on his own would have to fit in with daily life
or go out alone whilst ds napped etc.

I'm happy for him to come
to beach with me and toddler in mornings and afternoons
and have lunch here. I just think will be v hard knowing sister round corner having fun! Will be constantly rubbing nose in fact she's off out without him. If he's here without her that won't arise.

but he likes large jolly groups, not sure he's really up for coming here on his own with nobody to go out and play with lunchtime nap go

...sorry, with nobody to play with whilst I'm indoors
doing long toddler lunchtime nap and housework etc

If I was DH's friend I really would be rather fed up about being expected to share my entire holiday with his dad as well. I really would.

I have a friend who tends to do this to people - she will invite you for lunch or a day at her place and then lo! About 5 other people/members of her family are there as well. It means that you don't get to spend proper time with her, and that there are always people you don't really know or in fact don't know at all there as well.

She moved and so we travelled 200 miles to her for the weekend to find she had also invited her sister and brother in law, and nephew, all of whom we didn know from Adam. It was a total pain. And your situation is much more expensive/significant for your friend.

Well diddums for him. Maybe he should look after the baby so you can go out with the big jolly group.

But actually no he shouldn't come at all as he clearly intends to ruin your sisters holiday. I can't understand why you and she can't just say no

As you sure his only convenient dates are not deliberately tying in with your sister? And two single mates on a holiday of a lifetime? - supposing they were hoping to get it together?

The more you say about him the more he does sound a bit thoughtless. He should be coming to see you in my opinion.

From what you have reported it sounds like you and your sister are a lot more thoughtful and supporting than he is. Everything seems to be about what he likes and wants and not what you or your sister might need. You lost your mother too.

So unless he gets to tag along with your DSis and her friend, he'll be bored and take it out on everyone else?

Tell him again that there's really no space (the excuse about not being allowed more than 2 people in the house is a good one) and that he's welcome in the spring.

So it´s sounding as if he only wants to be there because sister will be.

That´s sad-well to me it is.

If he lives nearby & sees her quite a bit as it is (?), I don´t get why he couldn´t devote the best part of a week to OP & her son.

Will be constantly rubbing nose in fact she's off out without him.

She is a 30 year old woman FFS. Why shouldn't she be off without her Dad.
He sounds like a jealous, controlling partner, not a loving father.

I think that either way you are not going to be happy and are being put in an untenable position-so quite frankly you may as well just leave it and have your Dad a bit miffed, you feeling vaguely guilty but everything else according to plan-rather than no one being happy, you trying to rein your Dad in and spending all your time worry how sis/friend/DH/DF are finding their holiday.
Christmas is a red herring -it is one day and as a grown up it is up to your dad to find an appropriate way to celebrate it. Don't compromise-in this situation it really doesn't work! Good luck!

He just prefers out and about holidays with jolly groups and because of the nature of toddler pArenthood and work we can't offer that. He also says he doesnt want to be in our faces all the time as a 24/7 houseguest and would prefer to have
someone with him. Usually that is sister.

If we lived in a quiet uk town it'd be
different but we live in tropics in place
advertised as dream diving/honeymoon destination.

I can see why he wants to enjoy life here
to the full not stick indoors for large parts
of day.

Maybe he can find a pal to visit with in spring?
He will never know if he can holiday without sis if he doesn't try.

Dates wise, he really only can get the same time
off work as sis and friend. Or after Easter.

I'd say no and say that it's not fair on DH's friend. Say he would probably say yes but that it's not fair to put him in that position as he's looking forward to a holiday with your sis. Ask him to see it from his point of view. Keep your sister out of it. Tell him he's welcome to come to yours and then it's his choice if he chooses not to because of the early mornings.

Anyway, yeah it's a guilt tripping bitch but I think I have to stick with original no now for majority best interest.

:( but it has really helped
to talk about it, thanks all

Have a .

It is tough, but it does sound like the fairest decision. If he could bring a friend after Easter that would be great, wouldn't it? Your place sounds fabulous so I doubt he'd have much trouble finding someone who wanted to come!

You sound like a lovely caring daughter/sister.

I think your Dad needs to let your sister have her holiday as she has planned with her friend.

Your Dad does sound rather selfish, he shouldn't be imposing himself on your dsis, he'll be fine at home over Christmas.

Where you live sounds lovely.

Oh yes I can see why he he wants to do stuff that I´m assuming he doesn´t get the chance to do at home.

But a walk to the beach/pinic on the beach/snorkelling/boat trip.

They really can be done alone, can´t they?

So, this friend with the two bed place-does she go away often?

I think he needs to understand that you sister wants a holiday by herself, not with her dad, and this has been agreed with both sister and DH friends and that your DH wants to spend time with his friend.

If your dad wants this type of holidays then he needs to join either a club or go on singles holidays with other like minded people.

If he really wanted to come then he would and put up with whatever condition are available in your house or pay for his own accommodation (hotel/Bed & Breakfast) out of his own pocket.

From reading it all, I think you do have to stick with saying "no" to him. It's a shame, but he can't reasonably impose so many conditions on a pre-planned visit.

Just a thought, but could you get him onto a scuba diving training course when he does come over? It might fit his "jolly group" thing.